Active discussions

Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Politics
Original poster

AV referendum

34 replies

newwave · 03/01/2011 21:43

I am in favour of this and would introduce full proportionality if possible, I will however vote against AV so as to cause as much damage to Clegg as possible.

If the vote is "no" then all Cleggs lies and deceit has been for nothing as far as the LD party is concerned.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
lifeinCrimbo · 13/01/2011 01:18

Giddypickle you need to look at first votes first.

There are other systems, but we are deciding between FPTP and AV only.

GiddyPickle · 12/01/2011 08:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lifeinCrimbo · 11/01/2011 21:10

Giddypickle - but chris wasn't more prefered, because 75% of people wouldnt pick him as their first choice. So AV is indeed a fairer, more representative system.

The danger with our current system is that someone can be elected with a very small proportion of the vote, and the share of the vote required is dependant on how many people stand.

In the current system, if 6 people stand, it means someone can be elected with only 17 % of the votes! With AV, they need to have at least 50% support.

vesela · 10/01/2011 21:19

newwave, if the AV referendum fails, it's not going to damage the coalition. It may change some things, but it's not going to bring down the government. Dream on.

"without AV what does the coalition give to the LD party and non ministerial MP's except the prospect of electoral annihilation."

the prospect of putting the UK on a firmer footing, maybe? There's no way the LDs would want to pull the plug on the coalition in the middle of the current programme.

GiddyPickle · 10/01/2011 08:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GiddyPickle · 10/01/2011 08:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lifeinCrimbo · 09/01/2011 22:47

Im not sure which party I like at the moment, but I like AV because it will mean that a politician must have the support of at least 50% of their voters. Which means they will have to work harder to keep more of us happy :)

Chil1234 · 08/01/2011 11:36

I don't think it's necessarily true that a failure of the AV referendum would result in the death of the Coalition. The LDs may not be too happy at the moment, they've certainly made a lot of mistakes and they may even remove Clegg from the leadership as a result. But they have also invested/risked a huge amount in making the coalition work so far, they know that forcing a general election too soon would see their party wiped off the political map and I think they're hoping that, by 2015, they can point to some genuine achievements and the electorate will be much more forgiving.

anastaisia · 08/01/2011 11:21

Erm, we've had more hung parliaments under FPTP than Australia's House who use AV to elect have.

I think people who want change but will vote No to spite the Lib Dems are daft. Get some reforms to the voting system through then spite them by giving your votes that may have been for them to smaller parties.

complimentary · 05/01/2011 16:39

I see we have some common ground.........Grin

Original poster
newwave · 05/01/2011 16:20

Comp, God knows, I thought I knew most of them and have tried a few :)

OP posts:
complimentary · 05/01/2011 16:14

Newwave. 'Tory arse' 'spinning' Do you know of some fetish that I don't? Grin

Original poster
newwave · 04/01/2011 23:36

No I dont know them all but in the same way as I suspect all BNP memebers are racist I suspect all UKIP members are fruitloops and little Englanders, I will admit on both accounts I could be wrong and I will now apologise to all non racist BNP members and the same in regard to UKIP members who are not fruitloops and little Englanders, happy now.

The Tories destroyed the mining industry and heavy industry leaving whole communities with no work and no future, people driven into drug and drink dependency due to their bleak future, early deaths increased in those communities. If you dont consider that ONE example of Tory policy to be evil then I worry what you do.

Labour party! replaced the crumbling schools and hospitals inherited from the Tories. Reduced child poverty but not fast enough (your mob will increase it again as they ALWAYS do)

Introduced tax credits to help the poor.
Introduced the minimum wage (your lot opposed it).

I am not a socialist, apart from 97 I have always voted LD, wont do again until the Orage bookers are sidelined.

So stick that up your Tory arse and spin on it.

OP posts:
complimentary · 04/01/2011 12:28

Newwave. UKIP are 'fruitloops and Little Englanders' Oh so you know them all do you?
Are you saying the 900.000 who voted for then are mad? How ignorant. UKIP took votes away from the Tories, that is what caused a hung parliament. particularly on the
EU which is totally undemocratic.

People can't be silenced, thankfully. It is only here on MN and other sites that people can come out with absolute crap!

'Tories did the most Evil' What planet do you live on? If anyone has done evil, I suppose it was someone you probably voted for Tony Blair!
If any are 'scumbags' it's the entire Labour party who have ruined this country in more ways than I care to mention!
So stick that in your socialist pipe and smoke it! Grin

Niceguy2 · 04/01/2011 09:25

All AV does is increase the chances of a hung parliament and coalition politics will become the norm like most of Europe rather than the usual first past the post system we have.

Personally I think the lib dems ruined their own chances with the student fees debacle.

Had they have stood up to the Tories and said no, then the voters would have thought "hmmm, perhaps this coalition malarky is ok." As it is, they now are more likely thinking "hmmm, lib dems don't have a clue! I ain't voting for anything which makes them more likely to get in!"

Original poster
newwave · 04/01/2011 00:31

If the LD's lose the AV vote then it will drive a wedge between the non ministerial LD MP's and the Orange bookers and Tories.

Answer this please, without AV what does the coalition give to the LD party and non ministerial MP's except the prospect of electoral annihilation.

As you rightly say I dont like the Tories which is putting it mildly but they at least act in the way that their nasty nature dictates. I find Clegg and Alexander to be far more despicable, just a pair of Quislings.

OP posts:
purits · 04/01/2011 00:26

I absolutely promise that I will support Clegg in his pet project. I will even sign a pledge to this effect. And I would no more go back on that undertaking than, erm, a politician would.

Wink
huddspur · 04/01/2011 00:20

But by voting for FPTP you will be voting with the tories and so supporting the people that you don't like.

Original poster
newwave · 04/01/2011 00:14

Stopping the return of cardboard box "cities" to central London is far more important than AV.

Stopping the destruction of the welfare state and the NHS is far more important than AV.

If it was 6 months to the next election I would vote for AV but 4 plus years of Gideon cannot be countenanced.

OP posts:
huddspur · 04/01/2011 00:04

I'm not a tory but I just feel that the electoral system is very important and it would be sad for people to vote on the grounds of trying to hurt Clegg rather than have a serious look at which electoral system we want as a country.

Original poster
newwave · 04/01/2011 00:00

hudd, as i said the greater good would be a difficult concept for a Tory.

We have to make hard choices sometimes and as i am not a Tory i dont always put my own needs and wants first.

I have lived with FPTP for 50 years and i have lived with Tory governments, guess which did the most evil.

OP posts:
huddspur · 03/01/2011 23:45

Is the countrys electoral system not too important to be messing around trying to unseat Clegg from his position though.

Original poster
newwave · 03/01/2011 23:41

You are in favour of AV but you are going to vote against anyway.

Yes for the "greater good" (a difficult concept for a Tory i know). I want to damage Clegg as much as possible, to detach him from his party (a party i support).

I want to help bring down this government as soon as possible, if it isnt brought down we will see the Tories succeed with their ambitions to destroy the welfare state and to privatise the NHS and allow their cronies to asset strip it for their own profit, we will end up back in the 1920's with a version of the poor laws and the workhouse.

I expect the Tories to be scumbags but I did not expect Clegg, Laws and Alexander to cooperate in the wilful damage to the weak and poor proposed by Dave and Gideon.

OP posts:
longfingernails · 03/01/2011 23:16

huddspur I am only in favour of AV from one, narrow, theoretical perspective. I have already explained why I will probably vote against AV though.

newwave Pure proportionality would be a nightmare - just ask Israel. Even largely proportional systems are often unworkable - look at the EU Parliament. And pure proportionality (unlike FPTP and AV) means no more constituency link - something which I think is vital. It helps keeps MPs rooted, honest, and focussed.

huddspur · 03/01/2011 23:04

You are in favour of AV but you are going to vote against anyway. Hmm

Swipe left for the next trending thread