Really shocked at myself for thinking this (tuition fees)

Britain has just come 25th in a list of countries ranked by education. China came top. The Chinese leaving cert. is apparently awesomely difficult. I can't remember where I read that. Times or Telegraph.

fairymum - or employ graduates from wales and scotland.

I think its something very shallow and uncivilised in saying education has no value unless you can make money from it. Britain is also known abroad for its cultural heritage.

Investing in young people is really important. You might feel that unless someone does a maths degree and goes on to earn millions its a luxury you don't want to pay for, but you might end up paying for mass-unemployment in a few years time. Masses of young people who never got the chance to find their feet in life.

Companies won't just suddenly start employing people without degrees. They will employ foreigners with degrees instead because they are more highly educated at better universities. this is of course already happening.

you have to look at the bigger picture. if we don't stand up in the global economy with something to offer we will get into a worse mess.

the uk was renowned for science and technology. world leaders. we're falling way behind now. king's college in london is CLOSING their chemistry dept. what a travesty!

more students are taking the 'softer' subjects rather than maths and physics.

we can't compete with china and india for manufacturing.

so what the hell are we going to do?

i'm not saying close art and history depts. they have their value. but i see those as a luxurious choice.

all throughout history the arts have been patronised by aristocracy, wealthy classes, businessmen.

if you take away the means of making money, the arts will collapse.

you cannot rely on arts etc. to be money spinners, and hence expenditure on these areas should reflect that.

especially if you are an international student?

Granted - I'm just curious (tempted )- where in an english speaking country (I'm assuming most would prefer to study in their native language) is the cost of study cheaper?

I think that's true, Bonsoir.

Both mine are bright and academically-minded but I am seriously wondering about university now. Whether it might be better to consider other alternatives for them.

And, having paid for private education since they were ten, there's no way we will have anything left to pay for university. They're on their own. And that is true for many of the children they are friends with. The pot will be empty. We feel we've done all we can for our children and won't be able to lose our house to pay university fees.

"as i understand it a massive proportion of the intake at oxford and the other top unis are from public schools. so if these continue to exist and the ones that you call'm40' ones go that won't be a problem for public school students but it will for the rest"

That depends on whether the more 'successful universities' expandor not. There was some discussion of this in the Browne report.

abr - as i understand it a massive proportion of the intake at oxford and the other top unis are from public schools. so if these continue to exist and the ones that you call'm40' ones go that won't be a problem for public school students but it will for the rest

I went to a fabulous presentation last year by the headmaster of one of the best schools in Paris. Among the many memorable insights and quotations I retain from his presentation was this one:

"Do not attempt to give your children advice on higher education based on your experiences and those of your own friends and generation. To do so would be like sending your children out to explore France with a map from the 18th century."

The best revenge will be increasing the age for retirement due to the fact that the next generation of tax and NI payers can't cover the cost of the pensions.
That combined with a house price crash and no doubt a big stock market wipe out is over due. All those that stood by and let the children take the blame will be equally as indebted and wish they'd joined in the protests when they had the chance.

I bet if you looked at the current crop of young graduates at the BBc or on a national newspaper you'd still see the same sort of degree courses and universities being listed, Bonsoir. With, perhaps, some post-graduate vocational training.

And you need ABB to do Media and Communications Studies at Bournmouth Uni. Not to shabby.

No one is saying they aren't valuable, just that they don't believe the taxpayer should pay for them entirely.

I think media studies has only been going 15-20 years - most of those are too old for it.

That said - Media Studies students will tend towards the slightly lower status jobs.

'abr1de - so all the ex public school students will be fine. shame something can't be done to enable middle and working class students to do better at school and have access to these places'

Sorry, don't understand that argument. Are you saying that the universities which will close were only there to provide places for the working class?

Abr1de - media studies didn't exist as a subject when that generation went to university. That is not very relevant data for tomorrow's student.

not sure what to say to your ha ha ha re history in art warthog. It does come across as incredibly ignorant and a good reason why i think spending on education is important. I think it would be highly embarrassing for britain to be seen as an uneducated bunch who don't see the value of arts and humanities degrees to society.

Just two minutes googling reveals what the following journalist/editors studied:

Libby Purves, English
Andrew Marr, English
Jeremy Paxman, English
Fee Glover, classical civilisation and philosophy
Fiona Bruce, French and Italian
charles Moore, History
Adrian chiles, English

No media studies.

History at the University of the M40 - is probably in big trouble though.

abr1de - so all the ex public school students will be fine. shame something can't be done to enable middle and working class students to do better at school and have access to these places

Abride - X posted. I actually think some Media Studies courses will be 'winners'. It's a growth industry!

Abride - that's a good point which partly explains why Universities are split on the issue of raising the tuition fee limit. There will clearly be winners and losers.

Yes, I agree that market forces will prevail and that only University education that adds value will survive the huge hike in cost to the student (or his/her parents). I think this is a good thing.

Just type in the names of top BBc presenters, or reporters or editors on the nationals, warthog. See what they read at university.

Dollar to a dime it won't be media studies. Usually it's history or English.