Should racist speech be controlled by the law?

'I think you were lucky that she didn't press charges. doubt there were any witnesses.'

I think it would have been extremely stressful for you, as the case was investigated.

Scurry, yes you are right, heat of the moment thing and in truth given similar provocation I could not guarantee it would not happen again.

I like to think I am not racist in in my daily life I am not, I detest the BNP and EDL and all it stands for but I do have a temper and when provoked I do lash out with the most hurtful things I can say, wrong I know.

Yes, if you substituted the word black for ughly, then you could have committed a section 5 POA offence -you may have caused someone harassment, alarm or distress.

newwave - no one is questioning your right to be severely pissed off but you introduced a racial element where race was irrelevant.

but I ended up shouting into her face that she was "a fucking thoughtless fat fucking black bitch".

If I substituted "ugly" for "black" would it still be an offence

I think you were lucky that she didn't press charges. doubt there were any witnesses.

If a black person calls another black person a black bastard - if someone deems this incident to be racially motivated then it is a racial incident....it doesn't matter who (ie.passer by). It doesn't matter on the context just whether anyone felt it was racial.

scurry as I saw I am not proud of it but I had good reason to be pissed off.

All great in theory but in reality I doubt many cases like this would ever end up in court.

Still no answer to my question about what happens if a black person calls another person a black bastard? Or even a "fucking black bastard".

See it's not the words, its the context. In newave's example I am assuming it is because the implication was that the other woman was only a bitch (and parked her car too close etc) because she was black. When in fact the colour of her skin was totally irrelevant in this argument.

I'm no expert but I remember reading a case in the papers where someone got extra time on their sentence, because there was a racial element due to a racial insult.

I think Jack Straw brought that law in
www.independent.co.uk/news/labour-conference-straw-pledges-stiffer-sentences-for-racial-crimes-1233593.html

I think you were lucky that she didn't press charges.

newwave, yes you committed a public order offence - section 5 POA or a racially aggravated section 5 POA or a 4A Public Order offence - whichever cap fits.

MrManager, it was within 6 inches of my wing mirror.

I was wrong to say what I said but ..... miss she started it.............

She told me my note was out of order to which i replied so was your parking after that it went down hill.

Ah, so you are the new Cambridge Emeritus Professor of Wiki Cut'n'Pasteology. Many congratulations

Scurry, If it is a public place newwave.....that is all. Does that mean if I have a row with DP in the supermarket car park I can be nicked? :o

The reason i asked is this:

A year or so ago i came back to my car in the supermarket car park, some idiot in a 4x4 had parked so close to my drivers door i would have needed to get in via the passenger, rightly annoyed I was putting a note under the wiper saying "leave a tin opener next time you fucking moron" at that moment the driver (a middle aged black women) arrived back, read the note and we started to have a row. Now I am not proud of this but I ended up shouting into her face that she was "a fucking thoughtless fat fucking black bitch".

She said she would take my number and call the Police. Never heard a word.

I would claim provocation.

Dunno about being too academic.

Autonomy - the meaning already includes the word "self".

Self - autonomy sounds a bit - well - silly.

Come on, share what other "autonomies" you have in mind.

it is the language and even the loudness. I guess it has to go to court for the final decision to be made.

If it is a public place newwave.....that is all.

Claig, so when does a row become a public order offence, is it the language, the volume the row is carried on at, when it becomes physical, who decides ?.

I am asking for a good reason

"We can achieve self-autonomy if we are free to search for and express our ideals and values"

I think that was one of New Labour's slogans.

I think it is a public disorder offence to swear at people in public and can be a breach of the peace. Harassment in a public place is also a public order offence. There are laws on being drunk and disorderly and laws against begging in a public place. Racist insults come under the same laws and rightly so.

MrManager, thanks, I have read your link.

Between two people how would the insult be stirring up racial hatred.

MrManager - surely it would depend on context? And who said it? If one black man called another black man a "black bastard" can that be defined as intent to stir up racial hatred?