Supporting disbaled people unsustainable?

That was me that questioned what you were saying about depression earlier. Sorry.

I do suspect those with hidden disabilities like mental health problems are going to be the victims of this "initiative".

Five years ago I was on incapacity benefit and DLA for severe mental health problems. Mental health care is appalling, they are so overstretched.It takes years even to get the correct diagnosis.I gave up all my benefits and went back to work without any "incentives "
The reward for me was getting my pride back. Not having to explain to every new person I met why I didn't work. There is a real stigma to being mentally ill.
I don't believe many genuine mental health claimants need poverty to force them back to work.It can take years to get well. If they are forced to work before they are ready it will make them worse.

Oh, and don't get ESA either cos DP works. So our only income is DP's £16k wages and tax credits.

Sidenote - mine was a renewal for DLA, when I first alied 3 yrs ago, I had the CAB help me to fill in the form, when I sent in my renewal, CAB couldn't hel before form needed to be back, adults with disabilities team at SS refused to help (much like the carer I'm meant to have to help me prepare the dc's dinner that has never materialised from them, or the wet room as I don't even have a shower...), so I had to do it on my own. I obviously did a crap job of exlaining my needs, got refused, appeal was turned down, can't reapply for 6 months until February. And even then, unless I find someone who can hel me fill in the forms, I don't expect to get anything.

thisisanicecage I think we are all quite comfortable with ranting here, just be aware, this is a pretty calm thread. They usually get much worse, I'm amazed we haven't had hundreds of posts from people who know a friend of a friend's uncle's sister's daughter's friend who is fraudulently claiming DLA/ESA and therefore all disabled claimants are liars and cheating the system.

santasmooningarse (have I told you how much I love your new username?) I think we all have our own agenda. Both myself and my DH have invisible/erratic illnesses, so we are vulnerable enough with the current system, so I am biased towards seeing what will affect us the most. Doesn't make any of our views less valid.

Tbh I would love support to get back into work, I miss it, hate feeling useless. However I hate the thought that it will be used to beat us with, "do this or else", when I already don't trust them to know their arse from their elbow.

There are so many people out there already getting hideously wrong diagnosis from idiots like ATOS, as shown by the amount of people initially declared fit for work on ESA, then later found unfit through the tribunal.

They need to prove to us that they
a) know the difference between DLA and ESA
b) want what is best for vulnerable people, rather than their bloody figures
c) are aware of the huge range of ways different disabilities can affect different people
d) understand that lots of jobs cannot or will not make allowances
e) understand that people are suited to different jobs, and that disability can limit that further

It's not as simple as "here's a job, do it".

Actually, sorry generally for bursting out into full rant. It's normally poor old DP (works away) who gets his ear chewed down the phone after such "initiatives". Thank you for letting me spout here instead, so I can be serene Cage-dweller when he calls today...

SMA I feel for your situation and your DH/DCs. It's crap, isn't it?

Leave DLA alone?
How are they going to do that and make the savings they want? That's what it boils down to, making savings. They are going to fiddle around with it until a certain proportion of claimants lose money. They are going to get away with it because benefit claimants have been demonised by the media. No votes to be lost in punishing scroungers. Lots of votes to be lost in means testing winter fuel allowance....

Oh no, come back to the warm by the fire! (Only been here 5 mins, am scaring the nice people away already. Sorry.)

Offended at you? Nope, nothing personal: you proposed an alternative system, I'm shredding it!

But if you don't believe the message that DLA is being used as a crutch to keep people out of work, why are you supporting that message in practice by suggesting changes to DLA? I don't get it.

(that's not to say DLA is set in stone till the hills fall into the sea, but this specific set of changes)

1. Since when was DLA anything to do with "rewarding efforts to find work"? Disabled people have additional living costs because of disability regardless of whether we're working or not. They just vary in nature.

Since ESA is now going to be set at the same level as Income Support after the first year, ie at the minimum the govt reckons a fit human being can actually survive on, how are we going to pay these costs?

Quite importantly, what will happen to us if we can't?

2. The no 1 putative reason for destroying DLA is "simplification". Hardly, under your scheme.

3. If you have depression or lack confidence a "work support mentor" may be useful. If you can't sit upright for 30 mins, not so much.

This fairyland "people just need encouraging" model of dis/ability has always seemed to me exactly like the "signposting to other services" stuff above - enough to get us off the (anyway teflon) consciences of the nation without being enough to actually be useful.

riven they won't raise it,
just lower it for others iynwim

OK, I'm feeling more communicative than I'd expected now my blood has stopped boiling.

SMA, if my health improves I hope to work freelance at home for, say, 5 hours a week. This is by far the most plausible way of me ever earning anything again.

I would have no employer to administer an allowance (suggested on the parallel thread) or verify that I was working. I would also not be earning my living, because I couldn't work enough hours.

I would still, however, need someone to take work documents, etc, to the post for me and occasionally attend meetings in person. These are the sort of costs DLA contributes to (but may not fully cover), as well as the basic ones of hygiene, food, etc.

How does your proposed system work for me?

Riven it's even worse than that. According to the consultation document:

Chap 1 §17. A significant proportion of DLA recipients believe that DLA is an out-of-work benefit. Applying for DLA is widely linked with the process of leaving or being out of work due to disability. A common assumption among people receiving DLA is that entering or returning to work will lead to a review of their circumstances and a loss of the benefit.

Chap 1 §19.
The benefit can act as a barrier to work
Evidence suggests that DLA can also act as a barrier to work, when it should enable people to lead independent lives, including having or getting a job. DLA is widely perceived to be an out-of-work benefit and receiving it appears to reduce the likelihood of being in employment

In other words, we've pretended it's an out-of-work benefit so often that Real People believe it.

So to solve that problem, we'd better destroy the benefit.

Riven- I think they mean that DLA on top of other benefits mean that the person has no need to work as they recieve enough money through welfare to sustain a reasonable standard of living.

Its not a view agree with but I think that is the point they are trying to make.