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Original poster

Supporting disbaled people unsustainable?

190 replies

SantasMooningArse · 07/12/2010 13:31

here

I hate this sort of uncertainty. I have trained part and full time for seven years now alongside two disabled kids to get to the point where I was hoping to train in social work in 2013- but if DLA vaniushes it will be unaffordable. I feel we have lived up to every Tory ideal, battling redundancy, my DH's illness and the boy's SN with constant battles to get back on line, and now I think I might just give up after all- can;t train until thenas no childcare means DH must be working from home to care and he dosn;t qualify until then, and we will need to move and cannot do so with the SNU realistically until 2013 (a SW trained where we are in Wales cannot practice in England but we need to get back to family badly for support and help, both for them as they age and us as we try and fit in work).

Working in tesco woudln't ever cover the huge costs of disability childcare.

I acknowledge that this is a left wing article, there's a thread on this in SN with a less reactionary letter from teh NAS C&P's to it, but is this how big society was meant to work? Sorry disabled people, there's no money- saldy when it comes to ds3 there's no cure either- can I never afford to die then? Will there be any care left for him?

OP posts:
ThisIsANiceCage · 09/12/2010 00:08

Actually I'm going to be rude and bugger off, sorry. Have used up my supply of brain cells till about the middle of next week and am well knackered. But still reading you all...

[steps awaaay from the keyboard]

huddspur · 09/12/2010 00:06

newwave- if you don't mind me saying that surprises me. Your proposal for banning private healthcare is very illiberal and you oppose the euro as well.

newwave · 09/12/2010 00:03

hudd, so was I for many years not any more though since the entryist Orange bookers have shown their hands.

Clegg is only a social liberal, economically he is a Tory through and through

ThisIsANiceCage · 09/12/2010 00:02

Bollocks.
"cos" 1 = companies
"cos" 2 = because
"co" 3 = company
Blush

ThisIsANiceCage · 09/12/2010 00:00

More than 50% of US bankruptcies are caused by healthcare (that link's from 2005, it's just the first I found). "Sicko" shows a medical insurance executive testifying to Congress (iirc) about her actions refusing to pay for treatment and thus killing the patient. She was so ashamed she proclaimed it publicly.

Another wonderful feature of the NHS is that, while it doesn't preclude private health care, should you wish it, it sets the bar sufficiently high that insurance cos can't take your money and run: cos you'll only shell out the premiums if the company actually delivers. I remember some years ago an insurance company here trying the US trick of saying,"Oh if you had headaches years ago then your brain tumour was a pre-existing condition." Everyone interviewed for the news segment was boggle-eyed at the ludicrousness, and the insurance co got the sort of publicity no-one wants...

Bringing it back to DLA, you can have an integrated health service (not just sickness service) if you're prepared to see disability/sickness homecare as an investment not a cost.

huddspur · 08/12/2010 23:56

No I'm a Liberal Democrat supporter

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:55

Hudd, yes it is, I dont believe money should be able to buy advantage in heath and education you think the well off should be able to queue jump.

That is morally wrong, I take it you are a Tory?

huddspur · 08/12/2010 23:47

I guess our disagreement is clear, I believe that people should be able to spend their money on what they want (within reason) without state interferance and you don't.

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:44

Hudd, I realise not everyone is going to be equal, we cant all drive fuck off cars or live in Surrey in big houses but it is wrong that money can buy advantage in health and education.

I will stick by the above.

huddspur · 08/12/2010 23:42

newwave- your suggestion of banning private healthcare is very authoritarian and does really fit in a western liberal democracy. People can spend their money on what they want, if they want to spend money on private healthcare then that should be their perogative.

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:41

I've lived in America and you know what that simply doesn't happen.
The debt sheets for the hospitals are a joke because the people that owe them money either die owing or else will never pay up. But they are treated.

I will bow to your knowledge on this. However I did see an article where a liver transplant was refused because the patients insurance had run out among other cases of that nature. Also hospitals will bankrupt a patient who cannot pay any other way.

Is this true ?.

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:38

Why is consumer choice a bad thing? If people want to/can afford to use private healthcare why shouldn't they be allowed to.

Because it allows queue jumping (like my son did) based upon ability to pay, that's why.

I would introduce a levy, if you earn over £50,000 then you pay an extra 1% towards the NHS.

Great idea but lets forget the private opt out.

I realise not everyone is going to be equal, we cant all drive fuck off cars or live in Surrey in big houses but it is wrong that money can buy advantage in health and education

mamatomany · 08/12/2010 23:31

no money! then fuck off and die"

I've lived in America and you know what that simply doesn't happen.
The debt sheets for the hospitals are a joke because the people that owe them money either die owing or else will never pay up. But they are treated.

mamatomany · 08/12/2010 23:29

I have private insurance because morally I feel I should pay if I can, frees up money for those who cannot afford to pay.
I would introduce a levy, if you earn over £50,000 then you pay an extra 1% towards the NHS or else you opt out and go private freeing up the NHS for those who need it.
Touch wood I haven't had to claim and hope I'll never need to.

byrel · 08/12/2010 23:29

"TBH I would outlaw private heath care, bloody queue jumpers the lot of them. My son got hurt skiing (ankle injury) 10 week plus wait on the NHS his company had private healthcare and he was seen at a time he liked with 7 days. wrong wrong wrong"

Why is consumer choice a bad thing? If people want to/can afford to use private healthcare why shouldn't they be allowed to

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:28

Mama, every penny paid to the owners of private facilities is a penny less on patients.

We will end up with the USA model not the European one "no money! then fuck off and die"

Watch Sicko to see where were heading.

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:25

He didnt have to wait 10 weeks his company scheme paid for private care. The insurance was debatable, as a newbie he should have stayed on the nursery slopes and he did not this invalidated his insurance (we think) and it was only minor-ish (is that a word ?) twisted ankle but causing pain.

TBH we nevr got the full details of what happened, probably sodding about.

mamatomany · 08/12/2010 23:22

To solve which, it is anticipated that the doctors' consortia will throw that admin work off again to specialist private administrators.

That's not always a bad thing though, specialist medical secretary's don't make the errors that can cost lives.
Trying to do somethings on the cheap can be very dangerous.

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:20

We put the railways into private hands now it has bigger subsidies (due to the need to make a profit) a fragmented service and fare rises far above inflation.

The privatised utilities are a grat success story, not, tell Sid we were ripped off.

The NHS will go the same way

mamatomany · 08/12/2010 23:19

10 week plus wait on the NHS his company had private healthcare and he was seen at a time he liked with 7 days. wrong wrong wrong.

The only thing wrong is the 10 week wait, did you not have insurance that covered ski ing injuries, that seems ridiculous ?

huddspur · 08/12/2010 23:18

Given that other European countries with better healthcare than ours use private healthcare to deliver their universal healthcare why can't we do the same. Surely we should be looking to emulate systems that are better our current one.

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:18

Cage, at last someone without blinkers, thank you.

ThisIsANiceCage · 08/12/2010 23:15

" in order to reduce the number of bureaucrats"

No. The admin will still have to be done. Except now, instead of being done by specialist administrative bodies, with economies of scale and comparatively cheap but experienced paper-pushers, it will be done by doctors who could be spending their very expensive time more productively.

To solve which, it is anticipated that the doctors' consortia will throw that admin work off again to specialist private administrators. So there will then be administrators' wages plus profits coming out of the same cake. But without the economies of scale and bargaining power of a large body like a health authority.

Divide and rule: doctors can be kings of their own, very tiny kingdoms; rather than a small cog in a large, very powerful empire with huge buying power, etc.

newwave · 08/12/2010 23:15

Not quite right, a lot use not for profit organisations or limit what profit can be made. The Tories will have a free for all at patients expense

huddspur · 08/12/2010 23:13

Other European countries use private healthcare to provide their universal healthcare systems and they perform better than we do in international rankings.