Want your children to be able to go to uni?

Why did you have to pay for your degree yourself? How old are you? What degree did you do?

You paid the full market rate - the full 9K per annum, like these students? Not subsidised at all?

Do we take it you're a foreign student, then?

YES i went to uni had to pay for it myself a my husband did and my son will not be going unless the degree directly links to a job that you cant get with out a degree eg doctor or nurse like his dad no fannying about for 3 years to study media studies and if hes is silly enough to do such a course he will be self supporting and i will fully expect him to pay for it himself

I wanted maypole1 to comfirm or deny that.

I agree 100% sincitylover.

granted I would have gone too but couldn't risk getting kettled as have to pick up dcs.

As someone who both works in a university and also first one to benefit from university education from my working class family Im pretty passionate about how much of a difference an education can make to your outlook and life experience and career,

very much doubt that maypole has the intelligence to have gone to university. he/she doesn't sound much like it rather the views of a narrow minded bigot.

Or all protesters guilty.

Or would you like to tear gas the innocent too?

OK - maybe they were.

BUT I WASN'T.

So don't claim the police are all innocent.

granted, THEY WERE THROWING GOLF BALLS , PAINT POTS FILLED WITH PAINT AND POOL BALLS I AM WATCHING THE LIVE FEED NOW LOOKES VERY PEACEFULL TO ME THEY SHOULD RELASE THE HOUNDS AND GET THE TEARS GAS IN ON THOSE YOBS

Did you to university, maypole1?

Do your children, or are they likely to go in future?

I sort of feel for them as they have to enforce law and order while the politicians get protected from their decisions.

Saw them all travelling in this morning along the embankment - they are bound to be hyped up by it all.

Maypole I really hate that argument of why shouuld I pay for this that and the other it's so individualistic, so provincial, parochial and ignores the existence of wider society and the point of democracy.

Ie you vote in a government (which in this cse the majority of the electorate didn't)

You could extend that argument to not wanting to pay for wars, treatment of obese people, trident, bail out of the bankers ad naseum - we are all going to have an opinion on what we do and don't want to pay for.

But it doesn't work like that - you entrust those decisions to the govt via the democratic process.

I do agree that a country is morally bankrupt when it foists large amounts of debt on young people and removes EMA from the most poorly paid.

Xenia, exactly because the more students who want to study law the less chance you have of getting in unless you are very very bright and why should not be the case that is exactly what uni is for the creme de la creme.

Will agree with that, sincitylover!

Just got back from protest - failed to take part, other than to sign a petition,as the police were blatantly kettling people and I couldn't afford to be kettled - had to get back or I would have had a 4 and 8 year old waiting in the street on their own, once the school bus dropped them off - I'm v cross that my democratic right to protest was removed in this way. And I'm sure I'm not the only one - as well as the people shut off by huge barriers inside, I saw loads and loads of people like myself, shut off outside and unable to join in because of the (totally unnecessary) barriers. Moreover, I was physically pushed - very hard and totally unnecessarily, knocking my mobile phone to the ground (I was speaking on it at the time, trying to arrange to meet my DH, who works in Westminster on just the other side of Parliament Square). A young policeman (or thug in a yellow jacket, to give him his accuarate description) told me I had to move from behind him (where there were no people, and where I was talking on the phone) to in front of him (where there were likewise no people, for a space of about 10 feet in any direction); when I said I didn't want to, and was trying to talk on the phone, he pushed me with considerable force (should add - I don't look remotely dangerous or threatening - I'm very petite, smartly drssed, and look like - well, someone's mum, really - hardly a 'violent' protester). He then had the irony (or lack of irony?) to tell me that I had to move because it was 'dangerous'! - whenclearly the only danger was from the massed rows of extremely violent police. All drssed in riot gear. Clearly a little power goes to some people's heads.

I was both upset and angry, though hardly surprised.

On my way home, I reflected that the reason thugs liked him had little sympathy for students was that they were blatantly too stupid to have ever benefitted from a university education themselves, and were probably jealous of those who had; and also that any children they might ever have (this thug looked young enough to be my son) would likewise never stand a hope in hell of getting in either. So their reactions were understandable, if regrettable.

I also contemplated what a field days REAL criminals must be having - I have never, ever in my life seen anything like that number of police massed into one place, surely outnumbering the (peaceful) protesters by some margin. Presumably a great day to rob a bank, or undertake any other type of criminal activities - they'd clearly brought reinforcements in from very, very far away, as none of them seemed to have the faintest idea of the names of any of the streets they were on, or of open tube stations, when I tried to find my way to one with a map. One particularly dim but very pleasant policewoman assured me that the MASSIVE road I was walking down away from Parliament Square was Downing Street! - I don't think so, dear...

I also thought cheerfully, that when the Tory govt decides to reduce police numbers/pension ages/pensions etc, and the police decide to protest, the students (and their parents) will come and LAUGH.

Not a good day for the police, or for democracy. :(

ledkrsbellyislikesantas, even more reason why they should pay for their own education

Well in recessions parents pile their children into so called secure jobs like accoutancy, medicine, dentistry, law and certainly you are more likely to make a living in those than as an artist (although it is much harder to get into university to study those subjects and the person who might have got a first in art may well not get a first in medicine). However that doesn't mean all those taking those subjects have jobs and most people who become barristers leave and many many more earn between £15k - £50k as they are self employed than the very very few who succeed to earn over £1m. Loads are on legal aid. But then most people are mediocre in all professions.

Also not everyone wants to do the same as others. My duaghter's friend got a first from a very good university and I think works for virtually the minimum wage at a famous auction house. Another of her friends went straight into a job at a bank (they'd worked all university holidays for them already) on £65k a year (and loves it too) but I think most students with any sort of a brain know absolutely clearly what jobs pay what and take decisions based on income and lifestyle needs and their own interests.

but what is the issue with paying for your own education after you get it when your earning over 21k

you have neglected to answer why i should pay for some one studying horse psychology

They certainly have away of winding people up sincity i remember from my "sab" days,and thats the opinion of a coppers wife!

the police tend to engineer these situations to ramp up the protestors imho.

maypole have you ever seen a starving "sports scientist" or "golf manger"
Think people wopuld be more sympathetic if the degrees were relevant to the development of usefull careers.
I live in uni town and have to say the students here live very well,out most nights,dressed in labelled clothes and eating in nandos-ok that is a massive generalisation but i have spoken to ds's student mates and a lot of them really do go for the social life and see it as a "right of passage"fair enough but dont expect people in ordinary employment and paying off their own student loans to fund it.

maypole, you also ignore that you are comparing apples and oranges. In the US, Harvard etc are not public universities - they are private. Public universities in the US are much much cheaper - more like $5,000 - not £9,000 per annum. So about a third of the cost suggested for UK universities in future per annum - roughly what our degrees cost now.

So poorer US students have the option of going to a much cheaper public university, which there is no equivalent to in the UK.

Moreover, although Harvard etc charge far more poor year, no-one who is bright, rich or poor, actually pays that - they have a huge and all-encompassing range of bursaries, thanks to much more generous alumni than here - as an example, which I've given before, my 2 brothers both did postgraduate study at Ivy League universities in the US, and neither paid a penny - both received bursaries for all fees.

Again, there is no equivalent here.

never met a starving barrister but meet a few staring artist last one i saw was at kings cross trying to sell his art

my money would be on him being an artist and not finding works as opposed to if he become a barrister

i would like to see the stats unemployment amongst people with a first in law to people with a first in art

Most student work now under the current system.

Hopefully as said above it will mean useless institutions and children who just aren't bright enough to be on degree courses and are wasting time when they could be working or doing other things will stop being conned into doing useless degrees.

It will be easier for anyone of any income level in the top say 15% by IQ to get into university as no fees are paid up front under the new system. We can also ensure that things which don't really need degrees are removed from needing degrees.

Yes I understand £9k is the average cost - about 100% of the state funding goes and 100% is put on to the student.

Maypole - more lawyers are out of work when finishing at the moment than in work so he might not have walked into a job. The graduate market in most subjects is a bloodbath at present and even jobs in cars are hard to be had with your degree.

hurling paint pots at the police and then they wonder why they are being kettled

they need to try and go to harvard oe brown then they will bloody know about fees

Isnt 9k still heavily subsidised?My ds went to a dance school wt the same time as his peers went off to uni,it was 38k for 3yr course,no chance of a student loan at the time so had to audition for a scholarship otherwise couldnt have gone.
I do think that higher earning families will pay for their kids fees which isnt fair on the less able families,but if they pick the right course they can easily earn far more than someone without a degree,they could also do what students used to do ie work part time jobs,go out a little less and cook food rather than dine out,that would reduce the eventual debt accrued from living expenses.
Oh and dh has a degree in art and is a flipping copper we will be paying off the loan for a few more years yet,i di mine in nursing therefore got a better paid job and maine is paid.

my bil has just got a first in art well has he got a job no will he get one in "art" unlikey so can someone please tell me why we should fund these people to the tune of 3k plus living costs, i v said it before and i will say it again if the fees were 9k he would of done law and would of walked straight into a job plus he wouldn't be claiming the job seekers he is now because their are not alot of need for sculptors in 2010

these measures will force out the weak students and make the strong ones choose wisely

our degrees are the equivalent of the zimbabwean dollar not worth anything devalued

when you get the Welsh College of Horticulture is offering anyone with four Cs at GCSE the chance to study for an Honours degree in "Equestrian Psychology"!

THEN YOU KNOW THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE SHAME ON LABOUR FOR LETTING THINGS GET THIS FAR

'prestigious PPE'
Actually, that's one of the real problems. There are far too many generalists in positions of power. That has to change before anything else, but I don't know how you do it.

i think its part of our benefit culture that we have be come used to getting everything for free now we all actually have to look after our own children its come as a bit a shock to some

i am on a low income but don't get any help from the state i have already saved 3k for my son he is 10 so i am half way there.

my American friend is shocked we get so much free and still have the check to complain to be honest if you have to pay 9k to go to oxford its a bargain compared to say Harvard or brown in the states you would easily pay 15 or 20k to go their

not every child is uni bound the change is coming we cant afford it any more people doing stupid degrees at the tax payers expense and whats more shocking their parents allowing them to take up golf management and such but i guess when things are free people will make such choices

well hopefully we will se a bit less media studies and a bit more math going on in uni

if their not clever enough to get into a uni to do a sound degree should they be at uni and what more i never met a poor barrister, doctor or engineer so all this bleating about paying 6k back when they could potentially be on a 40K SALREY is bit off