Want your children to be able to go to uni?

As many (all) the others who were there, and from where I was, the police disproportionate reaction was a big contributor to violence. And most of all a clear agent in boycotting the protest.

Maypole, I was watching the live coverage for a bit between seminars and I saw:

Kids protesting as peacefully as a crowd ever can
Some surging, looked like normal crowd behaviour to me
One barrier being handled by several kids

Then at 4-ish I saw the police charge the kids on horseback and my jaw dropped. I wondered what country I was in for a minute. It really did not seem the right thing to do from what I was seeing.

Subsequently I saw it kick off and witnessed:

Kids throwing sticks and other long missiles
More barriers being handled and thrown towards police
Placards being burnt
Kids apparently kettled
Increased surging
Police officers shoving kids rather too hard when they did not appear to be under attack themselves

From what I saw, my opinion is the police response seemed disproportionate and contributed to the subsequent violence. It seems they have learned nothing from years gone past.

I was there yesterday.

maypole1 - the paint didn't start being thrown until the kettling had started.

harvalp - I also saw no car on fire.

My 16 yr old daughter was kettled for more than 8 hours, first in parliament square and then on westminster bridge where the police told the leeds coach to go, leaving all the totally peaceful protesters with no means of getting back home.

During the demo they were batoned and charged by police and the disgraceful coverage by the media which did not show anything like the violence meted out by the thugs in blue that are the metropolitan police is unsurprising but still appalling - luckily with the event of mobile filming there is much to be seen on youtube and other sites.

And regarding the royals - frankly at this moment in time a bit of paint and a kicked car containing a parasite and a scrounger is the least of my worries!

Thank you, granted. I'm worried about them.

I can't get a link, but if you go to the BBC pages and find a protest articles you can submit at the bottom.

I think they might've ended submissions - but they're all still trapped!

LaWeaselMys, I'll happily email - got an email address?

BTW, it is also quite tricky to walk hone to other cities 100s miles away, and leaving early is not an option when you've been stuck in the same place for 7hrs and not been allowed to leave even though you are being entirely peaceful.

What so now nobody can protest about anything in case random loonies hijack it and attack things?! Which is exactly what has happened here. Remember the 80s anyone?

PEACEFUL protest, is legal and a part of active democracy. Peaceful protestors don't deserve to be treated like this.

These people are shameful attacking prince Phillip, defacing Churchill statue these are people who are supposed to be degree educated I even witnessed people throwing fireworks at the police on the bcc live feed now they have the cheek to say their cold and they have missed their last train.
What about the police who have been working triple shifts how much has this all cost the money should be taken from the higher education budget .

Ps let the blighters walk home

If anyone is around and feeling useful lots of peaceful students are being kettles on the Westminster bridge trying to go home - last trains out if London leave soon.

Anyone mind emailling BBC to let them know, and put some pressure on the police to get them out?

scaryteacher, I do know that no-one 'dangerous' would have been able to get over two rows of barriers about 15 feet apart and say,10 feet high, to commit whatever dastardly deed they were planning to do.

The only danger where I was personally, was from the police.

I certainly don't think that we wish our universities to be full of violent thugs.

I don't think my being a teacher or not has much relevance - but since you bring it up, I wouldn't tolerate a student behaving like that for one moment in my classrooom; they'd be kicked out until they'd learnt to behave like a civilised human being.

Harvalp,

But I think that too many generalists at senior levels in government and the senior civil service is not a healthy thing. It's clearly visible in all the major parties now, where so many figures have gone straight into politics, in some form, with no experience outside that hothouse.

We've moved from one political class (the upper class) to another (professional politician), with some cross-over. If you're saying that too many politicians have gone straight into politics with no experience of life outside school, uni, politics, then I agree. Ideally the generalists should get some experience of working outside politics first. As should chemists and engineers.

Ah, another useful idiot...

You obviously studied philosophy.

RRocks

I am of the view that some of my students are not uni material, but that is based on having taught them for some time, watching them develop from 11 onwards, and being aware of their particular educational needs. It's not based on a snap judgement because someone pissed me off. Neither would I assume that their putative offspring would be unable to get to Uni.

You don't know what was developing as neither you, nor your OH (unless he was a policeman on the ground, or had access to all the intelligence being fed to the police) would be entirely aware of what was going on.

maypole-i was agreeing with you :)
I must say its nice to see healthy debate on mn without the need for nastiness,its rare these days.

The policeman did not 'get me to move', scaryteacher. He pushed me with considerable violence, knocking my phone to the ground (thankfully it did not break).

My OH was around in the area for another 45 minutes - there were no 'tactical situations' developing. Nor could there be - I was on the wrong side of a barrier, surrounded by police.

No - he was a small-time bully and a thug.

I cannot think of an 'intelligent' reason for that behaviour.

And besides, scaryteacher, I thought you were very much of the view that some of your students would just never be 'up' to getting a good degree or going to university.

Well, this lout clearly fitted that bill.

'On my way home, I reflected that the reason thugs liked him had little sympathy for students was that they were blatantly too stupid to have ever benefitted from a university education themselves, and were probably jealous of those who had; and also that any children they might ever have (this thug looked young enough to be my son) would likewise never stand a hope in hell of getting in either.'

And you teach? Just because the policeman got you to move is no reason for the vitriol. For all you know he may well have a first from Oxford, or have more awareness of a tactical situation about to develop that you may not have known about, as you were presumably not privy to all the information that was being fed to him.

I thought you were an adult Granted and an educated one; carry on throwing your metaphorical toys out of the pram, it's most enlightening.

No reply from maypole1.

Strange.

Rrocks, we seem to have somewhat crossed threads here. But I think that too many generalists at senior levels in government and the senior civil service is not a healthy thing. It's clearly visible in all the major parties now, where so many figures have gone straight into politics, in some form, with no experience outside that hothouse.

^
Think people wopuld be more sympathetic if the degrees were relevant to the development of usefull careers.
^

I've finding it difficult to follow whether people think

• that a university course has to lead to a good chance of a particular sort of job (which Golf Management might do, i don't know - as, theoretically, might Management of Reality TV Shows), or

• that a university course has to be in a subject that they regard as somehow ok, not 'Mickey Mouse', which seems to me to be pretty subjective as some people say that about subjects that I regard as important, or

• that a university course should be in an academic subject, regardless of whether or not it leads to a job.

A lot of posters seem to expect that the £9k a year fee will weed out the courses they don't want, but they don't all want the same thing, so they're not all going to get what they expect.

The thing about the useless courses, whichever ones they are, is that the government could stop funding them at any point. They don't have to increase tuition fees to do that.

I expect that the fees will reduce applications for all courses (although an Australian contributor says not, so maybe not) but especially those which are not vocational, which includes subjects that we should still have people studying.

Harvalp,

I would agree that a range of competenecies in government, as in the running of any company, is advisable, but why do we need to 'get rid of the generalists'. Do you think that there is no value in developing analytical and critical thinking skill while studying and understanding humanity through the process of history, philosophical and political thought, economics, literature and so on? Do you think that the developement of intelligence and understanding is useful only if it is applied to a narrow sphere?

Ah,another cynical bigot, harvalp...

maypole1 - sp am I right?

Are you a foreign student? Or did you choose to study at a private university? Or did you study a private course like drama or dance?

I just can'r understand why you would have not had a subsidised course?

Ah, another useful idiot...

Rubbish - it's not 'been taken over by' anyone. London's a big place. So there are some anarchists trying to use the events for their own ends. That doesn't mean anything's been 'taken over'.

The demonstration has clearly been taken over by anarchists who appear to have set fire to a car. Bound to happen since the left is attempting to kill the coalition. The students are merely the usual 'useful idiots'.