When will the BBC be held accountable for their lack of patriotism

no I think it indicates that there is a difference, which is why you are able to make the distinction. The difference is genetic and extends across a race, which means that race is not "an entirely social construct".

Claig - No of course you could, but all that shows is that you can identify the set of signifiers labelled Chinese or Welsh. This doesn't indicate anything genetic, innate or anything, just that I'm part of a culture with a specific classification system.

longfingernails - It already does lots for Britain and doesn't have a slant on it's output.

so are you saying that you can't be sure if you are right or wrong about who is Chinese and who is Welsh?

A social construct can't be right or wrong, as it us just "what people think". It may or may not be congruent with reality.

Yes I know that the Welsh are Caucasians. So what you call "social construct" is experience and knowledge from which you can make an inference. Is there any chance that that "social construct" could be wrong? Has it been constructed incorrectly?

Yes - but only because of the social construct we put on two particular sets of characteristics. (The Welsh aren't a race btw. I'm taking it to mean White in this context. Chinese aren't really a race either - I'm taking that to mean - South east Asian)

I'm struggling with that.

Can you tell the difference between a random Chinese man and a random Welsh man? Would you be able to correctly classify one as Chinese and the other as Welsh, given only those two options?

It means that we take a random bundle of physical characeristics, bundle them up and say "All those people are the same".

When in fact the characteristics are independant that the way we group them has no underlying biological justification.

WilfShelf, believe me I'm not thick. I may even have scored higher than you in national exams, and would possibly outscore you in an IQ test.

The difference is, I don't think you are thick. I just think that you are wring, because you have believed the wrong information. I'm quite happy to debate any topic, but if you don't want to then that's fine.

what is haplothingummyjigs?

I never said Usain Bolt's ability was racial, I said it was genetic. So we are in agreement that it is his unique genes that make him exceptional, not the fact that he practises 4 hours a day.

Of course, the Kenyan runners' ability is to do with their genes. That's why they are better at that than other African long distance runners. Not every Kenyan can run like the world champions, because they don't have the same genes as the world champions. Practising won't change things for them.

'Race is a social construct'
What does that mean? Do you think there is no difference between races? What about physical characteristics?

This idiocy is still going? Of course Usain Bolt is distinct. There's a whole extra debate to be had about spurious race/genetic explanations for sporting excellence but we won't go there.

The point is, claig, that you are conflating race with genetics, and conflating genetics with nation, and ALL of it is nonsense. And the actual evidence (did you look up haplothingummyjigs?) you choose to ignore.

I give up. This just reinforces my original point that right-wingers prefer to be a bit thick unquestioning.

The point is that Usain Bolt's ability is genetic but not racial.

A lot of distance runners come from the Rift Valley area of Kenya. This is thought to be partly genetic. It doesn't make all black people good distance runners.

Almost all sets of characteristics that we associate with a particular race are in fact independant of one another.

Race is an entirely social construct.

'she sadly didn't have the opportunity to reshape Europe in the Anglo-American economic mould'

just as well for them, or they would have been skint like us. They had a lucky escape. If germany had followed thatcher's economic model, then they wouldn't have been able to bail Europe out as they are doing now.

about Thatcher ''Although she played a crucial part in ending the Cold War, she sadly didn't have the opportunity to reshape Europe in the Anglo-American economic mould''

OMG it is really about the lost Empire isn't it?

Those genetically similar to Usain Bolt would be able to perform similarly to Usain Bolt, because of their genes. But he is faster than all the other athletes on earth, who do practise every day, and 99% of those athletes will never beat him, because he is special and unique.

The Wilfred Owen poem is a different class and is not saying that the soldiers are "nuts", it is not like the 'International Socialism' poem, which is disrespectful and scornful of patriotic 'nuts'.

Speaking as a daughter, niece, grandniece and granddaughter of Irish members of the British armed forces, I can say that that 'yobbo' poem would have appealed to them, and they would have appreciated that such a poem could not have been written if British society had not gone through the experience of WWI:

'If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, --
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.'

Wilfred Owen 'Dulce et Decorum'

mathanxiety - You should check out the Pensioner thread. There is an OP there who is so opposed to backing up their arguments that even CLAIG is doing better than them.

OMG, have read snippets of the whole race/genetics bit -- flabbergasted is not the word.

99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of the world's population could practice every day for a decade and Usain Bolt would still beat them, Claig.... including those 'genetically similar'

I flippin' love Auntie Beeb. Anything that can nark Murdoch that much has got to be doing something right.

And to accuse it of being all left-wing..oh for goodness sake. You think Jeremy Vine's a liberal leftie???? Paxo? Clarkson? Even Thompson could be a poster boy for the Tories. But there are some lefties, and some righties. There's some quality and there's some dross. You can always find something to appeal to your political leanings and your tastebuds on one of the BBC channels.

And CBeebies alone warrants my licence fee. Nina & the Neurons, Numberjacks, Alphablocks.... Genius.

So you've got a bee in your bonnet about the BBC, LFN?

"Now I have no time at all for football - I can't stand it ..."

Now I personally think a little hushed awe is in order when it comes to football, (not to mention some of the daftest and purple-est prose I've ever come across in an OP anywhere).

satire/not satire.

YOU decide.

In some of them I'm just drunk.

There may be some satire in some of my posts. But not all of them.