When will the BBC be held accountable for their lack of patriotism

I think its only natural to feel some affection for the country that you are from and probably still live in.

'But you said that patriotism was about ALL the people in our country. And you also said English, not British.'

I said patriotism is natural and is about love of one's country. I said the country is about all of us, but not all of us love our country. Yes Britain is not really a country, but England, Scotland etc. are.

So Welsh, Scottish and Irish schools should teach 'their' history?
yes of course they should

How far back would you go with people's genetic family and historical backgrounds? The Normans? The Vikings? The Indo-European tribes?
How far back would similar histories in other countries go? Say, for Americans? Or those in the Caribbean? Or Australia?

They should all go back as far as they possibly can, because those are their roots and made them what they are.

smallwhitecat - having a drink is a very patriotic thing to do.

Shared values are nothing to do with nationality.

The 'hilarity' over Tourettes I do blame on that documentary years ago which ridiculed the boy who had Tourettes manifested with swearing - the 'anchoring' moment for most people about what Tourettes syndrome was. And I think that was the BBC. It was unfortunately a very misguided documentary. And things haven't changed much from that stereotype, aided more recently by the Pete from BB 'wankers' depiction.

You don't love the bagpipes. You are just saying you do.

Like some people pretend to like opera.

Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread but IMO that even if flawed, the BBC is still worth the money. I thoroughly dislike the likes of Jimmy Carr but I can choose to ignore him and switch over when his horrid little face appears.

On the subject of political bias and the OP - do we really want to go back to the days of "anything else to say to a grateful nation minister?"

Er, no.

I'm not questioning the notion of 'coming together around shared values' etc, I'm simply asking questions about what these values are based upon.

Claig suggested this link was genetic: that somehow values are connected to our biology. I am disputing that. It is a very flawed idea and one that props up lots of beliefs that are problematic.

'Claig - Rightwing people around the First World War loved the rigid class structure and were rather gutted that it fell apart from 1918.'

I think you are assuming that right wing people are only the rich elite. Many working class people are right wing. In fact I think that the majority of working class people believe in right wing values.

I don't believe in all right wing conservative policies, but I believe in more of them than I do in socialist ones.

But you said that patriotism was about ALL the people in our country. And you also said English, not British.

So Welsh, Scottish and Irish schools should teach 'their' history?

How far back would you go with people's genetic family and historical backgrounds? The Normans? The Vikings? The Indo-European tribes?

How far back would similar histories in other countries go? Say, for Americans? Or those in the Caribbean? Or Australia?

Claig - Actually, people in general didn't evolve to operate in groups of more than about 12. This is why teams in the military and organisations tend to settle down to about that amount.
We need to use hacks that use the parts of out brains that anthropormise in tools like religion and patriotism in order to control people.

'And NO ONE like bagpipes. Not even scots.'

is what TCNY said. The point is I do love the bagpipes.

Claig - Rightwing people around the First World War loved the rigid class structure and were rather gutted that it fell apart from 1918.

Before that, there were other ghastly principles and activities that rightwing people supported. Being rightwing or leftwing is not a constant state of affairs, or do you hold to every principle that anyone on the rightwing of British politics/economics has ever held dear? If so, I think you must be rather confused.

'By which you mean, I presume, in order to feel patriotism, people have to be in regular contact with the expression of it, in cultural forms? They have to see it, feel it, recognise it as 'theirs', for example, on their state TV station?'

Yes people must know their history and their roots and their family backgrounds. That is why the Tories will undo what Labour did, and are reforming the teaching of history in our schools and are going to concentrate on teaching British history.

I'm not indian but I love a bit of Bollywood type dancing

I'm not Irish but I love Riverdance

I'm not Argentinian but I really love the Argentinian Tango

Not sure of the point

I'm not Scottish, but I love the bagpipes. When the popers play a lament it is a heavenly sound. At the D Day landings, a piper played the pipes and the Germans knew the British were coming.

This thread is getting hilarious in so many directions at once, esp thanks to claig:

• The example of English people living in Spain loving England more because they're English: why on earth have they bloody moved to Spain then?

• The concept of "roots" and some kind of genetic attachment. Your birthplace/nationality doesn't necessarily have any effect on you if you have no physical contact with that place. For example, lots of people will have a "right" to claim the nationality of a country according to the rules that country decides to apply to this qualification, but that doesn't mean they know about it/go ahead and claim it.

• The point of the BBC's news coverage is that it employs journalists that are positively encouraged to use their critical faculties to present and analyse what's going on in this country and in the rest of the world. Can you really say that the organisation that went through the whole Hutton enquiry post-Gilligan is left-wing? Do you know Alistair Campbell's relationship with the Beeb? Puhleese.

• The English countryside is the most silently majestic in the world, or whatever guff-ridden phrase you used.

I'd like patriotism to include an ability to be realistic about one's country, not assume it's the "best" in any way but to recognise its faults as much as its attractions. Otherwise, it's just blind nationalism that makes you the laughing stock.

Questions for Claig and LFN:
Do you really think that British trains were the best in the world because they were British?
Are you proud of the fact that we have about the highest prison population per capita in Western Europe?
How about the worrying studies on the stress and unhappiness of Britain's children?
And you probably think that the British booze culture is one of the more commendable aspects of life here.

Don't get me wrong, there are loads of things I like about Britain; but this does not mean I am blind to the negative aspects.

I don't know. Boyle has been 'let go' from Mock the Week

Carr is rarely on the BBC - he is more C4.

What I was saying in my last post is that the BBC (despite apparently been run by a mafia of lefties), are still quite representative of the public, and unfortunately at the moment, that includes some prejudice against disabled people.

I would be more inclined to be involved in Inclusion groups for example, and make that something to be talked about, than attacking the BBC for occasionally being off-message on disabled people.

Overall, the BBC are pretty good at keeping bigots off screen. Jimmy Carr being the exception atm, granted. But his time is limited.

I'm proud of the BBC - it is not perfect, but of all the channels that I have watched in various places, it is far and away the best.
Look

Claig - You live in a very odd world with it's mix of romantic fantasy and paranoia. It is a fascinating place to visit.

And NO ONE like bagpipes. Not even scots. Some of them pretend to, buts that's just to wind up the rest of us.

OK, you've already answered my question: 'people have lost touch with their roots'.

By which you mean, I presume, in order to feel patriotism, people have to be in regular contact with the expression of it, in cultural forms? They have to see it, feel it, recognise it as 'theirs', for example, on their state TV station?