Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Politics

How about thinking of the elderly for a change ?

503 replies

ivanhoe · 30/11/2010 13:09

The middle classes have managed to put their case on the media map because of Child Benefit reductions.

Wheras the pensioners cause has never found a media voice.

So middle England are moaning about losing their Child benefit, and the media are picking up on it and discussing it as a topical issue, because the middle classes are making a fuss.

But hang on a minute ?, the poorest people in this country are not the middle classes, they are the working classes who in proportion to income are paying more taxes than the middle class, and the pensioners on a £5,000 a year State pension receiving a State pension which they have already paid for while working prior to their old age retirement are being ignored, even though the oldest pensioners fought for this country during the War years.

Our elderly people are the generation that government?s have run rough shod over for the past 30 years, this is the generation we should all be speaking up for, and this is the generation who have paid into the system all their working lives, but have to endure a basic State pension of £97 a week, and means tested handouts.

Many woman get less State pension due to lack of contributions while raising families.

OP posts:
ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 19:52

Here we are, copied and pasted from the internet.

Care for the elderly in Wervik, Belgium
Introduction Measures of success Funding arrangements Working with partners Problems with expanding the full-service residential area Outcomes and impact Introduction
Wervik is a town of 17,500 inhabitants in rural West Flanders, Belgium. The older population in Wervik is growing and the number of younger people able to care for them is diminishing. Many older people acknowledge that they cannot cope on their own, although they do not necessarily want to go into residential care.

The Wervik Project aims to offer support to this group so that they could continue living in a home environment for as long as possible, with access to key care services nearby.

Myriam Deloddere, Manager of the Public Social Welfare Service (OCMW), Wervik, decided to develop a full-service residential care area in Wervik, having heard of a similar system in the Netherlands.

OCMW Wervik website

Since January 2004, older people in Wervik have had access to homes no further than 750 metres from the local hospital with a 24-hour care centre. Two new developments with 52 individual homes are under construction to enable life-long home living with immediate access to hospital care.

Not all elderly people in the area live in this type of housing. Many live in their own homes, which are often not adapted to their needs. The OCMW has a contract with a real estate agency. This enables older people to buy or rent a property from the agency and receive information on the full-service residential care service.

Measures of success
For the Wervik Project to be successful, a number of issues needed to be addressed:

The new site should have sufficient space to develop additional housing and support services: a minimum of four per cent and a maximum of 25 per cent of the housing must be developed in this way.
A minimum of four per cent and a maximum of 25 per cent of the inhabitants must be able to access services tailored to the needs of older people and people with disabilities.
A 24-hour care centre must be established within a 250-metre radius of the housing scheme.
There is a rest and care home function at the local hospital that provides a 24-hour care centre. Sixty-three homes are currently linked to the centre through an alarm system. Tenants can spend up to 90 nights a year in the hospital. The overnight care package ? which includes nursing, care, an evening meal and breakfast ? costs ?20 per night.

These services are complemented by an extensive range of home care services, including, for a nominal fee, home delivery from local shops. A transport service for elderly residents is also offered, together with ironing and cleaning, affordable clothes and an odd-jobs service. A pedestrian route around the town has been developed with benches at regular intervals.

Deloddere explains:

?There is pressure to expand the area. The problem is manageability. In any event, the model works. It costs money, but it is cheaper for an authority and for the clients than a rest or care home.

?The OCMW agrees that we must place all senior citizens who are not in need of care on the reserve list for care home places. For those in need we will check whether the full-service residential area can offer a solution. These people have to be helped differently, especially if they live in our full-service residential area.?

Funding arrangements
The OCMW receives increased federal government funding to cover the costs of care home places. But it does not receive enough to make money from the service.

The OCMW also receives substantial subsidies from various bodies. Without this it would be hard to offer such cheap services. OCMW also aims to raise money through other means.

Some of the funding is one-off: some of it is on a yearly basis. The majority of funding comes from the OCMW?s central budget.

Working with partners
The OCMW contacted many organisations working in the field. The purpose of the project is not to compete with those organisations. On the contrary, it can inform potential users of this central service about housing, catering, cleaning, nursing at home and so on offered by the organisations.

The OCMW also liaised closely with the council in Wervik and a social housing company.

Problems with expanding the full-service residential area
Funding is available from the Flemish government but the process of drawing this down takes time.
People living outside the area are lobbying to use the service.
There is no additional funding for the OCMW to continue renting the emergency call technology.
There is a lack of volunteers to carry out odd jobs.
Legal procedures, such as buying houses and funding for renovation, impede project progress.
Outcomes and impact
Before this project older people had no seamless service and had to rely predominantly on family members for full-time care. It was often difficult to get the right information about which possible services could be provided at the individual?s home.

With the implementation of the service, people can now contact the call centre or visit the OCMW office to get information on services and housing provided by both the OCMW as well as other agencies.

Local employment was boosted as a result of the Wervik project, which saw more than 50 full and part-time posts created, mainly in cleaning services.

Despite OCMW?s efforts to communicate with different groups, many were sceptical about the project. But by attracting the right motivated people and finding enough money to get started, it is now an indispensable service in the community. It attracts visitors from all over the country, and even from abroad, to witness the project in action. And the project is now copied in several other cities in Flanders.

Page published December 2009.

OP posts:
Portofino · 03/12/2010 19:30

I have been told that in Belgium, if you need to go into a care home and can't afford it, the bill goes to your children to be paid off at an affordable rate (think student loan type payment) and if THEY don't pay it all, it goes on to the next generation. So your grandchildren could theoretically be paying for your care long after your death.

huddspur · 03/12/2010 19:23

"The free market goes against the soul."

What are you talking about?

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 19:18

Citation needed.

ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 18:35

/////'It is a dumb thing to do.'

it's not dumb, it's human. Is it dumb to be human? We are not robots on a politician's spreadsheet. We are human and we are how we are. Let's have a caring system that understands people as they are, not how a planner would like them to be./////

The free market goes against the soul.

OP posts:
TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:40

Oh I agree that systems have to account for people actual behaviour - but that doesn't make refusing help that reduces your hardship while imposing no/little hardship on the person offering it really is just dumb.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:37

You could do with some hints on "Backing up ones arguments" as well. "Waiting for Claig to do it for you" is a sub-optimal strategy.

claig · 03/12/2010 17:36

'It is a dumb thing to do.'

it's not dumb, it's human. Is it dumb to be human? We are not robots on a politician's spreadsheet. We are human and we are how we are. Let's have a caring system that understands people as they are, not how a planner would like them to be.

ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 17:35

//////soory quote should have been about insulting my nan.

GMajor7SwansASwimming, well done. There is such a thing as karma, and good deeds are rewarded.///////////

Older poorer people are very giving, my mum was like that.

Thatcher's children, today's middle classes, are richer in pocket, but poorer in social attitudes.

They have been brain washed that they are the most important people in this country.

Why else would the politicians need their vote to gain power ?

OP posts:
TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:34

Ivanhoe - No, you DO need lessons from me, because you are doing it wrong.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:33

My Gran was the same about my parents paying for things for her. It doesn't mean that refusing help when it is offered is a noble thing though. It is a dumb thing to do.

ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 17:32

////////TheCoalitionNeedsYou Fri 03-Dec-10 17:28:41
Ivanhoe - you don't need there ///////////.

"" are perfectly adequate for showing that you are quoting. Take less time to type as well.///////////

I neither want or need lessons off you thank you very much.

OP posts:
TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:31

Thought so ;)

claig · 03/12/2010 17:30

soory quote should have been about insulting my nan.

GMajor7SwansASwimming, well done. There is such a thing as karma, and good deeds are rewarded.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:29

Claig - I think your copy and paste buffer screwed up there.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:28

Ivanhoe - you don't need there ///////////.

"" are perfectly adequate for showing that you are quoting. Take less time to type as well.

claig · 03/12/2010 17:28

'I'm not sure what other countries are paying their pensioners contributes to that.'

It's not insulting, it was true. You've never met anyone like my nan. She was unique, the toughest person you will ever see, nobody more stubborn. A fighter and battler who had a tough life and had seen it all. She was awkward, proud and refused help. That's how many old people are. There are loads like her, and she lived frugally, just as many of our pensioners do.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:26

Ivanhoe - Middle class is a socio-economic group not a generation. There are middle class pensioners. Quite a lot of them. More than the working class pensioners actually due to the longevity thing.

ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 17:26

/////Claig - Not being funny//////

No, your not funny.

OP posts:
ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 17:23

///////I am fucking skint, but I find £10 per month to donate to AgeUK. That's how I feel about it.

Charities which serve the elderley just aren't as trendy as children's/cancer/animal charities, so any thread which raises awareness of pensioner poverty is a bonus imo./////////

Brilliant.

OP posts:
ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 17:22

/////Claig - Not being funny, but had your Nan ever heard the phrase 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'?////

You insulting swine.

OP posts:
GMajor7SwansASwimming · 03/12/2010 17:21

I am fucking skint, but I find £10 per month to donate to AgeUK. That's how I feel about it.

Charities which serve the elderley just aren't as trendy as children's/cancer/animal charities, so any thread which raises awareness of pensioner poverty is a bonus imo.

ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 17:21

//////we're all being screwed, as are the pensioners.

My nan didn't live in luxury, she sat in one room with an electric blower heater, and she refused to accept any money off us. In summer, her flat was boiling hot and I mean boiling and I bought a huge fan and she stubbornly refused to use it and told me to take it back to Argos and get the money back. Old people are proud, they don't want charity, they often refuse help. Yes she saved and gave presents for her great grandchildrem, because that was a pleasure for her. But she ate a tin of sardines and bread, she didn't eat like us.

Not all pensioners are well off. The Guardian says that our pensioners are some of the worse off in Europe.

Let's have sympathy for all our people, young and old. Let's change things and make the lives of all our people better./////

You are talking to largely Britain's most self centred generation, the middle classes.

OP posts:
TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 03/12/2010 17:20

Claig - Not being funny, but had your Nan ever heard the phrase 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'?

ivanhoe · 03/12/2010 17:20

A famous Liberal once said that "you can judge a country by the way it looks after it's elderly people".

And I agree with that.

OP posts: