Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Politics

Should City Workers Voluntarily Return their Bonuses to the State?

113 replies

rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 12:47

Would that be the Big Society in action? ie an acceptance that the City owes the State a lot of money at the moment which it is only refusing to return in the form of not paying out bonuses because it argues that the problems we now have are not the responsibility of any one individual.

And do City workers genuinely believe they only do a good job in order to get a huge bonus? That it is only the scent of money that makes them financially astute? It's not as if that theory has worked very well to date...

(yes, this is a flagrant attempt to carry on my Big Society thread...).

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:37

I know. It gets frustrating when people are talking on different levels without even realising it, though!!!!! And my entire argument is that descending to political point scoring (like accusing someone of being a communist if they suggest bonuses are too big), is totally unconstructive.

OP posts:
BelleDameSansMerci · 26/11/2010 18:35

rabbitstew - you can't expect to control a thread on MN... It's about as realistic as expecting anyone to hand back a bonus. I wouldn't and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.

huddspur · 26/11/2010 18:32

The suggestion that people should return their bonuses to HMRC just because they work in the city is ludicrous (I don't work in the city btw). They have earnt that money and so it is theres to keep and do with what they like.

rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:31

And sorry if I'm sounding rude. It's not anyone's fault I don't like feeling my threads are being hijacked and going off in a different direction to the one I intended!

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:30

smallwhitecat - why do you think the opening thread referred to the voluntarily handing in to the State of bonuses? Precisely because they can't in law be forced to be given back. This is a thread based around the concept of the Big Society and how it should work. In other words, ideas should not be taken as literal opinions, anyway, but as ways of bouncing ideas off people.

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:28

byrel - you are just stating facts, not opinions. I wanted this to be a thread on opinions. Still, I guess anyone else can use it for what they like!

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:27

Allthetimethinking - are you being serious? (This is a genuine question, not sarcastic). It's just that it doesn't seem fair to me to say the very intelligent, wealthy bankers who are supposed to be good financially couldn't help lending money to those who are not financially astute. Surely, by overestimating the abilities of those they lent to they are equally to blame?

OP posts:
byrel · 26/11/2010 18:14

Who says its not deserved? The amount of bonuses paid are set by the market.

rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:13

Sorry, byrel. That was very rude of me and I deserve to be told off!

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:13

But the 50% they have left is still colossal and undeserved in most peoples' opinion. 50% of something huge is still a lot more than 50% of something small. Can you not understand that?

OP posts:
byrel · 26/11/2010 18:11

Why should they give back money that they have earnt? Don't they pay a 50% tax on it anyway.

rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:05

pagwatch - I worked in the City and got bonuses - not big ones, because I was not a banker, particularly not that "type" of banker who gets large bonuses. However, I was paid an awful lot more for what I did in the City than other people outside of the City in the same field of work. Within the City, this is a fair concept. It is not fair when looking in from the outside.

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 18:01

Oh, honestly. What a tiresome descent back into blaming and self-justification. It's always more someone else's fault, whoever we are. And we never question that. I wanted this thread to be more constructive.

OP posts:
slug · 26/11/2010 16:58
Allthetimethinking · 26/11/2010 16:48

I don't blame the banks. I blame the people who borrowed far too much money. Dream of home ownership. People self certifying. Borrowing way too huger multiples. These were the underlying assets in those 'toxic' cdos.

smallwhitecat · 26/11/2010 16:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

pagwatch · 26/11/2010 16:43

I can't get past the city workers sweeping stereotype. Most of my staff used their bonuses to have a holiday or pay their train commute.

A small ppn of people, some of whom are based in city, got ridiculous bonuses. Lots of people in the city are not involved in any kind of banking. The bulk of people in the city are ordinary office workers.

lucky1979 · 26/11/2010 16:42

Don't they give 50% of it back in tax already?

smallwhitecat · 26/11/2010 16:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Mandy3 · 26/11/2010 16:34

Great post Susie 100. And no - I'm not a banker either - just somebody who wants an honest debate with a bit less cant on this issue.

rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 14:38

And politicians shouldn't be quite so confrontational with each other, even if there is a mob out there who are baying for blood.

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 14:36

And I mean ALL media. I'm sure some newspapers, etc, try to be a little bit more balanced and less simplistic.

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 14:35

I also think it is convenient and politically expedient - and provoked by press headlines. Encouraging our lowest feelings. But unless we talk about these feelings constructively, we actually start to believe they make sense! Can politicians and the media not try to be a bit more balanced when they report things???

OP posts:
susie100 · 26/11/2010 14:17

The bail out is also the best investment the govn will make, we will make back all the money and then some.

susie100 · 26/11/2010 14:15

No I don't (disclaimer, I am NOT a banker)

Banks were bailed out (including Northern Rock which had no 'casino' department other than lending too much money to people who could not afford it) because without a stabel banking system ALL sectors and industries go into free fall.

If you cannot deposit money safely, you have no economy. Everyone would have suffered ethe fall out - nurses, small businesses, builders, EVERYONE!

The media and large swathes of society have very little understanding of what banks do, who 'bankers' are and what caused the cirsi. It was not jsut the bankers. The government and many other sectors were complicit and gained and encouraged from cheap credit. As did many individuals.

It is convenient and politically expedient to have a nice little group to scapegoat for the crisis.

If you expect bankers to give back their bonuses what about lawyers, management consultants, footballers, small entrepeneurs etc? Why just the bankers? Why not have everyone earn the same amount and everything else goes back to society, oh wait sorry that is communism and it does not work.

If you make UK uncompeitive place for financial services itts not just greedy bankers (who you may say good riddance to) that you are puttin goff doing busienss here. Its the 1000s of related businesses and counterparties. You are also going to lose a huge chunk of tax revenue.

I think so much chat about bankers bonus is simplistic in the extreme.

Swipe left for the next trending thread