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Politics

The Big Society

135 replies

rabbitstew · 26/11/2010 11:48

(I think I've found my forum, now - posted this just now in Education...). Does anyone else think that David Cameron's idea of "The Big Society" is just his utterly cack-handed was of trying to say that the emotionally resilient should do a bit more to help the emotionally poor and needy (ie understanding the concept that all people in society are occasionally extremely needy and deserving of support, not just the generally inadequate)? I agree with this idea, I just disagree with the method of trying to carry it out - it takes too much responsibility away from the State. And, of course, the attitude of the City, whose workers are supposed to be among the more emotionally resilient, doesn't help foster the right attitude. Apparently, different rules should apply to them - they don't have the time to volunteer in this way, because City workers are just so self-importantly busy making money, nor do they want to donate money to the State to help it in a worthwhile project. They would rather keep all the money to themselves, or pick and choose their own pet charities, rather than getting involved in any sort of common cause. (Behaving like a group of capitalist cats...).

Which leads me to think that the political parties are not poles apart at all - they just disagree on the numbers in society who genuinely need support and how many of them can actually cope with being told to "pull their socks up." ie at least the "Big Society" rubbish is an attempt to show that the conservatives are not totally autistic (unlike the City).

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grannieonabike · 30/11/2010 22:36

Thanks for the link, Takver.

Takver · 30/11/2010 22:13

boffinmum, there are lots of people calling for action in the spirit of the suffragettes

SharronM1 · 30/11/2010 20:41

The Big Society is about getting public services for free. The idea is to provide services by volunteers instead of paid workers.Back to the days before the welfare state.
Not that all volunteers are welcomed. What about those on tuition fees protests or campaigning against other cuts (all voluntary)?

rabbitstew · 30/11/2010 20:09

Grin.

Anyone's, so long as it sounds nothing like Tony Blair's.

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grannieonabike · 30/11/2010 18:02

Crazy Frog's?

rabbitstew · 30/11/2010 07:52

No, no, definitely the actor in Garrow's Law. Or how about Basil Brush?

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grannieonabike · 29/11/2010 17:42

Brilliant article, sfxmum! So, united we stand, divided we fall, and all that. Liked the Land article too, Takver. How true, how true.

I think there could be a real opportunity here for us to set the agenda - and thwart the government in their dastardly plan to divide and rule. The funny thing is we really are all in it together - all of us except them!

We need to speak with one voice, comrades. The question is, whose? (I quite like Stephen Fry's).

BoffinMum · 29/11/2010 17:39

Austerity Britain is the book to read if you want some context as to how badly people were treated after WW2, and how mean minded and individualistic people became as a consequence. It was not all cups of tea dished out by the WVS, by any means.

I think we should:

a) all join the Fawcett Society
b) reclaim the suffragette colours and wear them as a kind of secret symbol
c) start questioning the jam tomorrow lures dangled over us and demanding jam today a bit more often

Takver · 29/11/2010 17:35

To be fair, rabbitstew, had I done A level history at school, I would have studied the Chartists - and I did in fact study economic history for a year, I just didn't learn much, so it is entirely my own fault!

rabbitstew · 29/11/2010 17:20

(ie how to fight the establishment from the inside... being a bit obscure now. Good think I'm off to cook supper).

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rabbitstew · 29/11/2010 17:17

Maybe we should all study "Garrow's Law"?! (Well, it does make good TV).

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rabbitstew · 29/11/2010 17:13

Well, of course, they make sure we don't learn about that sort of thing at school!

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Takver · 29/11/2010 17:11

I agree that that is a fantastic article. And when you do try to step outside of the prescribed circle, time and again you run up against various forms of bureaucracy that can't cope with people who don't want to play the game.

I am a big fan of the Land magazine - every issue has articles that really make me want to press it on everyone out there - and their manifesto really speaks volumes to me.

Botticelli - I think it wasn't so much what people were doing, as the whole context of the times - the unemployment and marches of the 30s, the Spanish Republican government, and a sense that if the working people of Britain were going to fight for the country, there had to be a better deal on offer.

George Orwell's essays from the period (particularly the Lion & the Unicorn and My Country Right or Left) give a good feel for the times, I think (although obviously writing from a socialist viewpoint).

Could it happen again? Well, I guess when the ruling classes feel threatened they either react with extreme repression (thinking of the Chartist period, and the revolutions across Europe in the 18th C, though I don't know that much about the era) or a certain degree of liberalisation. I imagine that the international context as well as the British one makes a big difference.

Historically I guess it would be fair to say that the British ruling classes have been very successful at giving just enough to prevent outright rebellion (well, ignoring the Civil War, of course), though I am sure there are a lot of people on here who know far more about the history than me.

Unfortunately back in my student days (a long time ago!) I foolishly thought economic history was boring and pointless, and it is only as I get older that it seems to me that it is actually both fascinating and really important to understand.

rabbitstew · 29/11/2010 17:09

On a more serious note, "they" are clearly worried about riots spreading, as per Greece, and student unrest, etc... so I guess there do literally have to be signs of stirrings in many areas of society, rather than just in isolated pockets.

Of course, the suffragettes provided an excellent example of how women can cause trouble where it's least wanted! I would have thought, though, that it isn't just many women who are unhappy with the status quo at the moment (and who weren't happy with the status quo before the recession, hence being less happy to hope we can "get away with it" than others, despite the severe temptation if we are in a position to literally get away with it, given our personal incomes).

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rabbitstew · 29/11/2010 17:04

BoffinMum - All female middle class women walk out of their jobs for the week?! And stop doing the school run?! Have fun with the kids at home, instead! They'll probably just blame it on the snow, though...

Can anyone lend me a sledge?

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Botticelli · 29/11/2010 16:39

Yes sfxmum,excellent article,and so telling - the precariat -thats it! Me too boffin; scared, living from day -to- day,all my bravery and rebellious tendencies squashed into a selfish, gnawing worry about the future.

 Takver,when you were saying about the post ww2 scenario,and that the governing classes only acted when there was genuine fear of poor peoples rebellion,what action were the poor taking to affect change? and can we repeat it? I wish I knnew my history better. 

Could it happen again? are the circumstances similar?

BoffinMum · 29/11/2010 16:15

What would a female middle class revolution look like?

Are we going to stop ironing shirts, baking muffins and do a work to rule in our public sector jobs?

BoffinMum · 29/11/2010 16:14

That article was scarily apt. Expensive housing, expensive childcare, long commutes, short-term employment, the myth of jam tomorrow to keep us all working, I have a reasonably secure job but I really do relate to the other things. How on earth did I get into this position?

Only those with incomes well in excess of their needs, invariably with devoted wifies on hand to keep the home fires burning, appear to be able to influence the way this country is run.

rabbitstew · 29/11/2010 11:54

Maybe we need to make them think we are feeling a bit more revolutionary, then! Anyone for storming Parliament?

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Takver · 29/11/2010 10:54

Unfortunately, I think that the final bit of my comment was quite important there. I.e. that the reason that we had the increased equality of outcome was because there was a genuine fear in the governing classes at that moment in history that there was a possibility, if not a likelihood of revolution unless there was some real shift of wealth to the lower classes.

rabbitstew · 29/11/2010 10:48

Which I guess means, I personally think we are all still all hoping at the moment that we might have got away with it, so long as we tighten our belts a bit, but that we should NOT be thinking that - we have not got away with it, we've just been given a good chance to have a reality check.

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rabbitstew · 29/11/2010 10:35

What a brilliant article!

Another thought, from Takver, that I found chilling, from another thread on here (because it gives fuel to my fear that maybe we'll only start talking and thinking sense if we have another world war - provided we survive it at all):

"I suppose the only era in recent history where a fundamental shift in the economy has combined with increased equality of outcome was the second world war, where I believe there genuinely was a sense of 'all in this together'".

I do hope we can be more sensible than to carry on as usual and simply hope that wars and riots don't break out as a result!

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sfxmum · 29/11/2010 09:54

an article with thoughts on the whole happiness thing here

Takver · 29/11/2010 09:44

Hmm, I'm not sure that religion helps - there's a good reason for 'no Gods, no Masters' - for too much of history the Christian religion has been used to justify and reinforce the hierarchical status quo.

Just think 'The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly, and ordered their estate' . . .

Botticelli · 28/11/2010 23:27

Actually rabbit ,I sort of agree with you --

"thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself"

seems to cover an awful lot of bases for a loving society - do as you would be done by, really-

     Anyway, goodnight.