Police endanger the lives of students, schoolchildren and others on 24th Nov. Tuition Fees Demonstration

My parents contributed to 1st, then there was actually a 2nd for which I didn't get much at all as cocked up the 1st, so I happily worked 3 days a week for duration of course (and still easily managed a 2:1).

For the third, I won a very generous scholarship as it was vocational training. For this last one, I paid.

The idea that a hefty slice of the population is entitled to a university education is madness. It is elitist, that's the whole bloody point.

Moondog - I think you've already answered my question, actually. I would object to 'spolit whingers with an unwarranted sense of entitlement' too. I just don't know any.

What has struck me from reading some posts on here is how hostile some people feel towards students. I don't understand why. To me that's like feeling hostile towards shop-keepers or nursery nurses. Why single out a section of society like this? Were they bitten by a rabid chemistry student once or something?

Moondog - Genuine question - what about the other two university courses? Did you have to pay for them too?

I didn't realise we were arguing.
You express an opinion and I express another.
Just because I don't agree with what you say doesn't mean that I don't read it and consider it.

I'm not the one calling people 'dim' aand 'bitter' either. It amuses me no end but it is one which does not endear me to the arguments voiced here.

And before anyone says I'm against the students, if I'd been aware of the last protest I'd have gone myself. Walking stick and all.

The problem is dotnet, the protest before did involve violence, they had no way of knowing that it wouldn't go that way again.

In an ideal world the hooligans wouldn't hijack peaceful protests for their own means, or if they did, they would be easily identifiable so they could be removed. In that ideal world the police could stay away. No one would get hurt, scared or have their property damaged (on both sides)

But while those idiots are still there, the police have to be prepared for the worst, because the alternative is being blamed for sitting back and doing nothing.

Blaming the police, although I can see the reasons, is missing the point. In the same way that blaming the students is missing the point. It is neither of those parties faults. It's the rioters that turn up to these events that are at fault.

Kettling isn't ideal, no, but in all honesty, how many other methods are there available bearing in mind they were aware that there was a high chance there were rioters in amongst the students?

Have to say as well, leaving the van there as bait? Even if this was the case it didn't mean anyone had to vandalise it.

OK Moondog, can I suggest a truce? How about we discuss the issues, express our views reasonably and give eachother's opiniona the consideration they deserve? I'd be up for that.

Btw, I'm being genuine. I really want to know how we can resolve this difficult situation. It's important to take different opinions into account, imo.

I've just paid £££££ for my recently completed MSc. Was very happy to do so too.

Did you have to pay fees Moondog?

I don't find men or teenagers or old people offensive. I am a very happily married privileged person with an impeccable education (having attended a trio of excellent universities.)
I object to spolit whingers with an unwarranted sense of entitlement.

Oh, and holier than thou earnest types like you lot.

Moondog, still don't understand what you (and others) find so offensive about teenagers. Do you also hate old people? Men?

If there's anything wrong with teenagers today, then who's responsible? Your generation and mine.

Dotnet, you reminded me of something I was thinking earlier. Yes, the police would have been filming you, and you probably are on their database. One or other of the police spokesmen I was talking about earlier has also mentioned 'intelligence' as a way of fighting demonstrators.

I wish it was the other sort ...

If it's foolish to feel sorry that a man died then I'm happy to be a fool, Moondog.

What does laughing at his death make you, exactly?

Your earnest posturing just makes you look even more foolish, Edam.

Moondog - what, precisely, is so amusing about the death of Mr Tomlinson?

Another good comment on their self indulgence in the Independent.

Kaloki, what worries me more than what actually happened at the last demo is the tone of the remarks of the high-ranking police officers who have been interviewed in the news and in papers (one from the Met and one from South Yorkshire, I think). They are talking about demonstrators as if they are all criminals.

The police know they are being filmed at these demos so there is great pressure on them to behave appropriately. I worry that these remarks demonise young people and mean that 'appropriately' in their eyes is OTT in the eyes of the demonstrators and will escalate the violence.

I have mixed feelings on this. I totally agree with the protests.. but I also have a lot of sympathy with the riot police. It may have been a peaceful protest, but they aren't psychic, they have to be prepared for the worst case scenario. If they hadn't used the kettling technique then could you guarantee that the violent rioters (as opposed to the protesters) wouldn't have caused further damage and/or injury?

'I'm genuinely frightened that one of their number (and it only takes one) - will kill again.'

huddspur - of course you can usefully compare on thing to another.

It's not the same as stating they are identical.

Because moondog is another one too dim to have gone to university, I expect. And bitter about it.

There's no way anyone who themselves went to university and benefitted from a free education themselves would be such a hypocrite, is there? (Tory/Lib Dem MPs excepted, obviously - they are the definition of 'hypocrite'.)