If you pay tax then you should not receive benefits.

Isn't that what the universal credit along with the Lib Dem increased tax thresehold proposes though?

Don't pay tax if you earn under £K (eventually up to 10K), we'll still top up your money if you earn under a certain amount but we want it to be one simpler system. If you both work we let you keep even more?

The housing benefit does concern me, will only work with regulations for land lords to protect tentants. Hope this is worked out in the actual legislation.

Loudlass; you said that anything you earn that only takes your income up to £25K would just be a bit on top of what you have now. Would it be possible to work out how much that is, then see what you could earn a week and try doing something self-employed and ONLY let yourself earn that much a week? Or would it mess up the housing benefit too much?

I get where you are coming from, jollydiane, BUT there is NO CHANCE of DP earning more, so if ALL the TC's were taken away, we would be up a creek without a paddle. For those whose TC's would be less than or equal to the tax they are paying, then I can see that what you are suggesting would cut out a lot of admin, and wasted money. But for people like us, who get more back in TC's than we pay in taxes, even if we were allowed to not pay tax, we would still have enough of a shortfall to push us into poverty.

You absolutely cannot say that everyone is capable of earning X amount (if X = wages + Tax Credits) if X amount is more than you would get in a FT minimum wage job. So I suppose what you are saying is that DP's wages would have to rise to cover the amount that we get in Tax Credits,minus what we pay in tax? Can't see his employers going for that one TBH.

Jollydiane - I see where you are coming from, but surely you can understand the basic principle that some people will work full time, and still be getting more back in tax credits/housing benefit than they are paying in taxes, and if you took that away from them, they would not survive. And I mean that in the most basic fashion, they would not have a roof over their head, not even a single room. Even though they work FT.

You don't abolish something that important to a huge amount of people because it's inefficient - you make it work efficiently!

I understand about the estimates, but if you're on a variable income, that's pretty much imossible to do with any degree of accuracy. At the moment, anything I could earn wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to our TC's, because I think the limit where they start to 'drop' the TC's is something like £25K? Not certain on that, but even if I worked PT for min wage, say 16 hrs a week, we'd only be getting round about £21,500 - £22K pa household income anyway. So it would just be extra on top of what we scrape by on atm.

I reiterate though, even with DP working FT, and me working PT, our household income without TC's/HB would be £21,500 - £22,000 pa. Yeah, we can rent a house to fit 5 (soon to be 6) in our town and pay for food and utilities out of that. Not.

That sounds like you had an awful experience. And yeah, I completely understand the housing benefit issue from friends experiences; that system doesn't work without a regular income and that makes it impossible for your situation. As I understand it, this is something that the government hope to address with their universal credit plans?

I suspect that the tax credit system was altered, as I think that when I first claimed it was new to be able to provide an estimate for the year (that would be 4/5 years ago). They've also made big changes to how much extra you can earn before your tax credits drop.

Whilst I accept that you can have a variable income for tax credits urposes, it can cause porblems, as a few years ago I had a job where I did different amounts of overtime each week, and even though I contacted the TC helpline every month with my earnings for the month, told them they were paying me too much etc - they overaid me consistently, and I ended up with such a huge overpayment that they were deducting £12 a week from my TC's (even when I was out of work) for 4 years. So given previous problems with it, I need a regular wage.

And as for HB - EVERY time I earnt a different amount (which was every month...) they STOPPED my HB while they reassessed me, and each reassessment took 6 weeks...so it took so long for them to reassess me each time that I'd given them a different income amount before they'd even reassessed the last one! It got to the point where it took them 6 months AFTER I lost that job to catch up on the reassessments, at which point I was on IS, I ended up with a notice of seeking possession on my rented house through non-payment of rent, and nearly lost my home.

A variable income when you are reliant on TC's and HB is far too much of a headache as the government departments are unable to reassess quickly enough, and I can't afford to have less one financial year to have it 'added' to the next one, as how do you pay your bills if you don't have the full amount you need coming in each week?

Having read this through, what strikes me is that it is simply a truth that people are different,with different skills, personalities,energies,etc, and for instance, what suits Xenia,isnt possible for Loudlass.What Xenia may see as a challenge, as a possibility for making money;Loudlass sees as a huge obstacle,and remember she does not have the benefit of good health; which really is pretty fundamental.

 Self-employment does not suit a lot of people,they want the security of a regular wage.Sadly there are going to be less and less of those to find.

I do think Xenia is right about outlook, luck,ways of thinking.

But maybe it is actually all about luck, the initial bit of luck being the personality you were born with.

And what does make one person end up poor and unsuccessful, and another rich? I do think we all have gifts, and some of us have a gift for making money, and some of us dont.

But all of us are equally valuable human beings.

No, it isn't for tax credits.

Tax credits is based on hours worked and income. You don't have to earn minimum wage for your hours worked if you are self employed.

This may change; It's a change which is proposed in the new white paper; but not currently something that is in place. So probably best to make decisions now based on what's currently happening, rather than on legislation that has yet to be put before parliament. Bear it in mind, of course, but don't let it stop you doing something if it's something you want to try.

Nope, need to be paid for all hours 'worked' as in respect of TC's and HB, it is assumed that you will be getting minimum wage for every hour worked.

Also - if you work for your self - you don't only count the time you are being paid for.

You count the time you spend on admin, advertising, buying things for your business, going to the posto office to post things if your sell something etc etc.

So if you put 16 hours a week in, then it shouldn't matter if you don't get paid for all of them, especially to begin with.

(again though, I know the housing benefit rules are different to tax credits)

Loudlass

A variable income may mess with HB - but it shouldn't have to mess with tax credits.

I'm self employed and simply give them an estimate at the start of the year which they base the years tax credits on; then if it looks like I'm going to make much more or much less I update the estimate. Then after I do my tax return I tell them the final amount and they send me a final statement kind of thing saying you qualified for X amount. We paid you X/Y amount. We still owe you 0 or Z amount.

I always do a generous estimate as I'd rather have been underpaid slightly than over paid.

I know that housing benefit is more complicated (I don't get it) and that alone may make irregular income unsuitable for you. But just wanted to make sure you know there are ways to handle irregular income with tax credits.

I know lots of people who dont' bother with new year's eve. I certainly don't. I will be babysitting my own children that night.

So I suspect even on benefits with a bit of thought you might be able to afford a second hand web cam - they are pretty cheap or try the tutoring idea by MSN.

So you want 16 x minimum wage a week which is about £96. so if you could persuade 1 - 2 subscribers a week to take up one of my newsletters that would be the commission and it could just be done at home - telephone, email and presumabnly for lots of other people with things to sell. B ut as you say you need the guaranteed income of a regular job not based on your own success only.

Do look at the paypeople per hour place because a lot of very hard workers who are badly educated and spell badly who have reasonably good businesses are let down by poor copy and spelling or inability to write marketing materials and they advertise on there. I was looking at an ad on there a few seconds ago.

Or at work! Last time I was employed, offered to work NYE as I was paid triple time, as no-one else wanted to work it! I got almost £21 an hour for that night! This year, DP is working NYE mind you. Double time for him, but still all good.

And anyway, Xenia - I must take issue with one thing - just because someone is 'very poor', does it mean that they would be willing to give up their NYE? I personally am the ONLY person I know that isn't really bothered much by NYE. Most people I know have massive NYE parties, and cannot understand why I like to spend NYE at home with my DP and dc.

No webcam. Can't ride a cycle, too dangerous - seizure whilst riding a cycle on the road...run over much? Writing short articles sounds a feasible possibility, but really I'm looking for something I can do as a 'proper' job, to get me out of the house, earn a regular amount of money (needs to be regular due to restrictions on Tax Credits/HB etc, irregular amounts of money still have to be declared, and can cause serious problems with claims). How do you 'get hold of stocks' of dresses and such without the cash there in the first place?

The babysitting sounds good, but tbh, most of the people I know wouldn't PAY for a babysitter - we don't charge each other for looking after each other's dc. And I'm talking about all the people in my social circle, which ranges from those claiming IS/JSA to those earning upwards of £50K pa.

Payeopleerhour sounds like a good one, I may check that out, but if it is only like one hour here, then 2 hrs the next week etc - it's not going to be enough, a variable income really messes with TC's. If I could do a solid 16+ hrs every week on there, that'd be ok though.

Sorry....I've been rather busy, not even earning money, j ust admin, voluntary stuff, children etc....

1. life coaching - what is it? I'm doing it here and not charging you.. laughing as I type. I did the bit I did by web cam as the subject was abroad. She found it very helpful. I think I was quite good. So all I needed for that was a web cam which presumably you might have.

1. Transport - we cycle a lot. Are able to cycle? I think a lot of people would feel a lot bnetter if they cycled a few miles a day. mind you you have to be able to afford a second hand bike.

1. I don't think you do need a CRB check for some tutoring. I know someone who tutors music theory by web cam and isn't there someone how does latin coaching by web cam? If you're not in the same room as the child presumably it's hard to interfere with them so you wouldn't need it. So we could start with that. You write and spell well. There wil be relatively rich mumsnetters on here who dont' have much time to help children with their weekly spellings. You could set things up so that you give the child a 30 minutes web cam session learning their spellings, you make it lots of fun too of course and all that stuff, "The Spelling Bee. I'm sure a mumsnetter can come up with a better name.

1. What about also writing articles speculatively? I've done that. I sent one to 50 trade publisications once. About 10 accept it and three paid and the unpaid ones generated work for me. Your first article could be about 600 words on the "dole trap" or that fascinating issue which I think was you the other day that you haev no birth cert.

or marketing. People have thing they need marketing. I do. You paid paid on commission. If you're good at writing or speaking that could work well.

1. Try paypeopleperhour web site too - you can do things on there like freelance writing of web site copy, checking people's writing, proof reading and a whole host of other things.

Yes people pay about £200 for an afternoon's Christmas party. I'd far rather arrange that than work all week on the minimum wage not that that's something I do.

Ebay - well as you say you may not have anything to sell nor be able to make anything but it's another route. Is there something people are very short of - the latest craze, that Blue dress Catherine wore at the engagement announcement, get hold of stocks and sell it on or wahtever is likely to be the latest craze.

Baby sitting on new year's evbe is anotehr one. Get a list of very poor people together who would give up NY eve and send out emails or leaflets about it. Perhaps as you cannot leave teh house much and you have no transport and might have a fit etc you just do the organising as you sound quite an organised person. Get a list of very reliable people together and then advertise to people who need babysitters that night and match up the people and you kee a small commission. They are just a few random ideas.

There are also quite a lot of elderly people in their own homes who want a companion or someone to do errands and advertise in local papers rather than use agncies. You have no transport but someone might be prepared to send a taxi to collect you if otherwise they could not find someone prepared to change their incontinence pads or whatever if they are people wyho find it very very hard to get someone prepared to do a bit of caring for them.

One more limitation - cannot use anything that is classed as heavy machinery. Which includes catering equipment, and even cardboard compacters.

Limitations: No transport, so any job has to be accessible by public transport. Cannot work more than 16-22.5hrs a week due to medical issues. No up-to-date relavent qualifications (have no GSCE's, but BTEC's in construction and the built environment up to lvl 3, but cannot go onto a building site EVER again, and C&G quals in CAD which are obsolete as they are over 7 years old, and very old RSA quals in typing). Been out of work for over 3 years. Have only one referee from last 13 yrs as all other employers have gone out of business.

Skills: Am reasonably literate. Am a quick learner. Good at multi-tasking. Punctual. Wants to work. Have taken on supervisory duties in the past (but cannot get references to show this). Have been in sole charge of retail premises in the past. Can cash up a till, and take deliveries. Can do stock ordering.

Not if you are only able to work PT due to medical issues. No chance of promotion then. FT work makes my seizures worse, and my Neuro has refused to sign me as fit for work if I take a FT job.

If you take a retail job and work hard, you might get promoted.

Maybe a life coach would be able to help me to see if there were any viable options for me other than taking a PT retail job for min wage then? Shame I couldn't afford to pay one!

I don't think Life Coaches should be judgemental - it's not about feeling superior about your own life choices, rather being conscious of the choices available and not constantly thinking "what if".

Okay. TY for the explanation. Anyone want to try it with me? . I am not 'overwhelmed' by the choices available to me, in fact I'm distinctly underwhelmed. I maybe am struggling to see the wood for the trees WRT how I can become a contributing taxpayer again given the limitations on me, but it's not as if someone in my situation (or similar) would have the money to get help from a life coach, and surely people like me need that sort of help more than those that can afford to pay for it??

I would assume that it a similar remit to that which advisors in the jobcentre used to have, but for unwaged dependants of employed people - they aren't allowed to SEE the advisors at the jobcentre any more. So where do those people go for help like that?

Surely to make a good 'life coach' you would have to have made a better job of your own life than the people you are advising, or else you are being rather hypocritical in giving them advice on how to do better in their life than you have in yours??

Life coaching is basically taking a person through all the constraints upon someone, opportunities they have available to them, and helping to prioritise, strategise and then execute their goals.

Modern people are often overwhelmed by all the choices open to them (or that they think should be open to them) and can't see the wood for the trees. Life coaching helps them get some clarity!