'Things Can Only Get Better'

The loss of services is a consequence of the previous Governments reckless overspending causing us to have the highest deficit we've ever had in peace time.
The coalition is having to drastically reduce spending to tackle the deficit and prevent national bankrupcy as you can't carry on having a deficit that is 12% of GDP and spending more £40 billion a year on debt interest.

I agree with the negative comments about the previous government. They were a fucking disgrace. Encouraging the explosion of personal debt, paying benefits (tax credits) to families with above average incomes to make them vote Labour, allowing housing costs to spiral out of control, all of it disgraceful.

...And breathe...

Understandable, SanctiMoanyArse. I'm sure services to children will be for the chop as well as services for adults with ASDs.

I'm thin and on a diet, just so I can afford to feed DCs. Great isn't it.

I don;t imagine there will be anything soon for them; i'm on a diet and my sole motivation is to lose weight so I can live as long as possible to ensure ds3 is cared for.

Sad huh?

Yes all the low paid work appears to have been contracted out. When I worked in social services years ago they were busy contracting out all home care services. The contracts went out and as I understand things now, there is so little money left in the coffers that the elderly are left to organise their own care what will more cuts do to the most vulnerable in society.

Sorry, £5.5k PA

Good point Burg.

Also, since the minimum wage low wages = a set amount; prior to that however (oooh under the previous Government I beleive) I did work in the Public Sector, VAT office to be precise, and the wage was so appallingly low that teh unions took the case on- IIRC it was £55 P?A full time, with overtime expected. Bus fayre, keep to mum and it was gone; indeed if any other bill came in Mum was ending up subbing me, despite being fully employed.

Let's not go back there; becuase that is genuinely the days of could not afford to work. Had I not had Mum, I could not have afforded to even get to work some weeks.

The public sectory pay being better than private sector pay statistic is a great example of lies, damned lies and statistics ( or something similar) The lowest paid public sector work has bee contracted out to the private sector, therefore making it look as if we are all living it up at your expense.

I am a senior teacher , have been working for eight years. I still do not earn what i did in my previous job in the private sector. I don't mind, I chose the career change but I would have earned more in the private sector

CAn I just add it's not just teh North; industrial towns anywhere- as someone who lives in S E Wales, and used to live in another similarly hit town in teh west.

I thought it was interesting what Belle-Broomstick said about areas of deprivation in the north. (do you mind if a shorten your name?) It was Thatcher who caused mass unemployment isn't it. The last government tried to invest in these areas, rightly so. I live in the south east with DH on an average wage, but I have never had a problem that money has been spent in areas in the north.

Selling public companies, steel, coal, shipbuilding, it has ruined the lives of thousands and is a lost area of revenue for our economy. That is the private sector though, the rich off to make a quick killing and sod the rest!

I'm just picturing this money sloshing about under their noses.
The state might be too big or not big enough, I don't honestly know. I just think that the cuts will impact upon the people who will most need frontline services. The very same people that gained nothing much in the boom years. Cutting benefits to famillies will not offset the huge welfare bill they are busy creating with their cuts. The private sector is not growing at the rate that Georgy Peorgy hoped it would and can not accomodate his soon to be made redundent public service workers.

I guess that's what freaks wealthy tory types out about a large state? It's lots of lovely money sloshing around in front of their noses that they can't get their hands on, it's out of the "game" of the markets?

Is that why they get their knickers in such a twist about it? I think it might be, and all the stuff about efficiency is a smokescreen.

ISNT, you don't miss a trick. Its the siphoning off in the private sector that IS the problem. It is this that is breaking economies and creating poverty. IMO

Just put this on another thread, repeating in case any here know the answer:

"I don't even understand the theory TBH.

public sector = people's money is taken in, in the form of tax, and then redistributed amongst a load of (usually low to middle earning) people, in order to provide a service that benefits the community. The working conditions etc are usually pretty good compared to the private sector. They pay taxes and the money circulates around and around.

private sector = people's money is taken in, in the form of tax, then spent in the private sector where some of it is siphoned off in profits and large salaries for the owners etc. the rest is spent on providing a service for the community. the people employed in the middle and lower ends have less preferable terms and conditions etc. They pay taxes and the money circulates around and around, with a bit less each circuit due to the siphoning off.

What am I missing?"

Cinnamon

You do need to look at different wages for different jobs.

A social worker for example, educated to MA level very often, does not get that much for a postgrad role; a care assistant gets minimum wage.

OTOH there are clearly roles )often adminsitrative) that are paid above average whack: I almost married a council programmer who absolutely earned more than the public sector equivalent for a trainee. Mind, it satyed the same on qualifying as was regarded as an 'investment.... so they all apcked up and went to the Private Sector where wqages for qualified programmers were far higher.

There's no point looking at overall averages in such a diverse spread: it's far more varied than that. And a lot of non state jobs- I ahve held a few_-esp. in the third sector are paid on LA pay scales anyhow.

Saisl yes some jobs in the public sector are better paid, people have studied and gained qualifications and exp to do these so called (your words not mine) middle class jobs.

However next time you order a coffee in starbucks, ask the lovely people how much they are paid. The basic wage, because they are the people producing the surplus value for the rich capitalist and shareholders. These people on minimum wages are the working poor that the free economy is based on.

BelleDame, MN is the cutting edge of economic theory so no shame is spending Sunday afternoon on it! Paxman fades into insignificance in comparison.

Siasi I just ahd a chat with ds3 about social repsonsibilty and not taking from teh state, but he just flapped at me, stood on his head and blew a bubble of saliva.

Sorry, personal responsibility doesn;t cure autism. I tried though. Honest.

Nobody was forced into it; ythe reason we've weathered hard times is an absence of debt and acceptance of a lifestyle bvased upon what we could afford when times were better. We had (and still get) as many pre-approved notices as anyone, but turn away on principle. We have an emergecy overdraft that sits there unused JIC, and an £8.99 phone contract each.

But partly learned when things did go avoidably tits up years ago- and because I think dh and I are fortunate to be of that strange ilk that doesn;t care less if their clothes are designer or thrift, as longa s they're intact and more or less fit. Ditto old car/ etc etc.

Actually siasl if you take your ideas to their logical conclussion we could end up with anarchy. I hope you have paid your private health care insurance, have no need of an NHS dentist and you won't be expecting help in your old age. While your busy building your self sufficiency bubble there are people starving in the third world and neglected kids eating out of bins in this one.

I've just started working with (with, not for) some public sector organisations in one of the most deprived areas in the UK. It's one of the areas most impacted by the previous Tory government's stance on unions/coal mining etc. It is eye opening.

It's bloody awful for the people who work there and the people that live there. It's incredibly depressing and I'm only on the edge of this. The public sector organisations are the biggest employers in the area. They are pretty much the only employers in the area of any note. If all these people lose their jobs (which are not "created" jobs and I know most are not highly paid as the benefits analysis for cutting costs by losing people is negligible) the area will become even more depressed, etc.

I don't know what the answer is. I guess if I did I wouldn't be MNing on a Sunday afternoon but would be spouting economic theory on Newsnight while Mr Paxman disagreed with me.

"Their pay is lower than many jobs in the private sector but this has traditionally been offset by job security."

But average public sector pay is now higher than private sector pay, they also get final-salary pensions and better job security.

ISNT, thank you, thats the sweetest thing anyone has said to me on mn. I ususlly get called a marxist, leftish, looney, comrade