Honest question. Is this site a religious site?

I didn't know that, either, Swedes. I'm thinking now of your poor liitle girl, Habbibu and your poor little boy Swedes.

Religion seems to be just game playing for me. Seems a bit pointless now.

Oh, I am sorry, Swedes. Yes, your reaction is what I felt I ought to feel - but I didn't - I was very happy to hear people were thinking of us, but prayer really made me furious, and I still don't know why. I'm not an angry atheist, I have a religious family and happy memories of a religious childhood, but the prayers really made me snap. And I was really ashamed - still am - particularly as one of the cards came from a woman who'd lost her child in Dunblane.

Habbibu - I lost a baby son. We had him buried in our local churchyard in Yorkshire. I was very grateful & touched by people's prayers, thoughts, kindness etc - even though I am not a believer.

Oh gosh, Threadie! Didn't mean to spring that on you - thought it was pretty widely known.

Thank you, though. She was diagnosed with anencephaly at 21 weeks gestation, poor lamb.

Habbibu, I didn't know. I'm so sorry.

I'm still, however, trying to understand quite why people sending cards saying they were praying for me when dd1 died enraged me quite so much - they sent me spiralling into fury. Obv. it was a grief reaction, but I had a really violent reaction (in my head) to anyone linking my daughter's life and death with any concept of God.

at you all not liking the idea of delayed gratification. Do you want it now?

No, I do know that, ruty, hence my disclaimer about the more sophisticated understanding, etc., but it niggled and bothered me as I was beginning the transition to atheism. My position now is that this is it - this is all we get, and we have to make the best of it. The outcome will probably be much the same, but the motivation will be slightly different. Or maybe not!

Really, ruty, do you think you can separate it from JC? Good. I don't like afterlife/reward either.

ah yes Habbs but that whole reward thing is a red herring. No really what JC was on about. A lot of it about control and the church.
I know what you mean about the rest though.

Yes, all that seems good too Habb, and maybe that is how I feel too. I think it must be the devil in me that wants to find space for god'

What's the obsession with 'evidence' anyway? We need evidence to support any empirical claim. But God isn't an empirical entity it's not a claim that there is one more thing for science to discover. We don't look for evidence that e.g. -- justice is worth seeking. We reason about morality

And we reason about religion, about God, we don't fact-hunt.

It's more about finding an interpretation of our odd spiritual position in this strange universe.

Yes, wanker. But genuinely puzzled.

FWIW, I think Activia is a cult which, while useful for some, has outgrown its original "culture" (har de har) and has become a nonsensical uber-religion.

Hmm. So much has gone on. I think we'll have to address the theology of Activia at some point.

Threadie, while I see and appreciate your point, I find the longer I live as an atheist I find more peace and understanding of people and art and beauty etc than I ever found as a Catholic. Now, of course, that will have something to do with getting older and wiser, and in having a very happy life. I guess I feel no need for such a locus for all these metaphysical feelings and experiences, if that's the right word. I feel more acceptance than I ever did when religious (and I was quite religious - Lourdes, youth groups, blah blah).

I had a very happy Catholic childhood, and enjoyed the ritual and the sensory element, but that isn't too great a sacrifice for me. But I'm not taken with the "silly" god names certain atheists use - it strikes me as taking a position designed to alienate and provoke conflict rather than reasoned discussion.

I don't want or need "God", I guess - I want to live a moral and valuable life, and to teach my daughter that her morality stems from herself and her relationships to others and society. I think the one thing that really bothers me about religion is the idea of "reward" in heaven - it's always made me uncomfortable, and although I know that most believers will have a more sophisticated understanding of their morality and behaviour, to me the concept undermines and real attempt at genuine altruism.

I've been to Butlin's.

And if God is on my side, it's a miracle....

justabout - what did you think of my babyname suggestion?

Ruty - Threadie is a wanker.

muller-riced?

[you should still get The Lives of Others out rev, even though i gave away the ending. ]

Well I could have said he's been fruit cornered but I preferred mullered. I like the word mullered.

you're clever, you are, threadie.

Mullered, Swedes? Are we bringing yoghurt into this as well as biscuits and pale ale?

x-posts, sorry.