Biggest cultural shock you have come across?

I agree, BBC. My point was that I know when visiting some countries seeing animal abuse is inevitable and if I can help in some way, I will. But in some places, like China, its so far gone it would make little difference me going and rescuing a stray cat when there are cages filled with them for sale as food.

I know it's cowardly but I just couldn't cope with seeing that.

Gillit But in some places there is just too much neglect/abuse and whereby it has become the norm, eating cats for example.

Erm... the only difference here is that we have some weird spychological rules about which animals are ok to treat barbarically.

Great thread. Only halfway through but wanted to add mine:

Moving to the UK from Johannesburg and discovering the miracle of Royal Mail 1st class stamps. You send a letter and it arrives somewhere else the next day You may as well have told me it was delivered by the owls out of Harry Potter, I'd have believed it.

On a related note, the fact that my mail arrived to my flat, rather than my driving 20 minutes to a shopping mall to check my mailbox.

The size/cost of London housing. My first lodging was a single room at UCL, maybe 2m x 4m. It cost £100+ a week. I'd moved from my family home where I'd had my own large bedroom, bathroom, study and a swimming pool that I'd only had to share with the family dog.

The freedom to walk the streets in London, after getting used to driving anywhere. In the same vein, a broadly reliable public transport system - I could read books! While travelling!

Realising how much of a role class still plays in the UK, consciously or unconsciously.

The UK/London/some bits of London mentality of "Oxbridge uber alles". Still astonishes me.

From my DH: seeing 18 year olds in Israel (doing their army service) wandering around on public transport with large rifles.

That's truly awful, astonished

Lalegue I agree. It's one thing if I can help in some way, e.g. I'm doing a trip to Thailand to help out at a very ethical sanctuary with no riding. But in some places there is just too much neglect/abuse and whereby it has become the norm, eating cats for example.

I have university friends who live in China and have invited me over several times but I just don't think the heartbreak would be worth it.

so after 5 attempts I actually had to order my water in an American accent just to make myself understood!!!

I've had to do that as well, I'm from London. I felt like a right idiot saying "Waaader". My neighbours across the street lived in the USA for 10 years so their children all speak US English (we live in a non-English speaking country just to clarify) She has these dolls that my DD adores, they are American girl dolls or something and every one has an all american type name, one is called Katie, my DD assumed it was Kaydee, until she wrote it when they were playing. My DD then asked "If someone in the USA is called Katie and someone else is called Kaydee, how can you tell which is which, do you have to ask them if their name is spelt with a T or a D?" I had to hold my face, and supressed a snort. She wasn't being rude, she was genuinely curious.

SGillit unfortunately many / most parts of the world are off limits if you don't want to be traumatized at either the casual neglect of animals or the downright barbaric cruelty.

I will never never go to China for this reason.

Gillit I know what you mean. I saw a dog that had just been hit by a car when we were driving from the airport to our holiday villa and I must admit it spoiled the holiday for me. It was awful.

Dd is off to Gambia today. She's in for a big culture shock I think

Where would you suggest avoiding if someone was an extreme animal lover?

If I saw something upsetting it would ruin my whole holiday & probably lead to either a prison sentence or debt from shipping the animal home.

I missed my own hen do in Ibiza because I had found a sick beautiful homeless dog. He'd clearly been abused and was dragging himself around the streets wanting food. I had to move hotels as the one we stayed at wouldn't allow him in my room. Then I had to get him vet checked and through a charity got him home to the U.K.

My DH wasn't all that impressed, especially when the same thing happened again with a kitten in turkey a few years later.

IMO the only class obsession I ever come across in on MN, not in real life.

I'm from NI. The thing that shocked me when I started to get into MN and read more and more threads, is just how utterly obsessed the English are with class. I was genuinely baffled by it

Me too. And especially all the really subtle things that are pronounced to be class related - what you call rooms in your house, pieces of furniture, mealtimes, what you call your parents etc. It's utterly baffling to an outsider and yet it's assumed that everyone knows these things and that you're being deliberately obtuse if you don't get it.

Another mumsnet culture shock is how many people say they are tee total and that it makes other people angry/annoyed and that they are asked to justify it. I'm not shocked by them being tee total, I'm shocked by the fact that other people question it. Where I live no one would bat an eyelid at someone being tee total, about half the people I know don't drink alcohol.

And I think our class system is becoming like the US. I.e. forget roots... what have YOU achieved for yourself

That sounds reasonable to me. However there are plenty that disagree. I am an educated professional, however what I didn't mention above was that my dad, and pretty much all my male relatives older than me, were miners. Female relatives were SAHMs, barmaids, shop assistants, cleaners, childminders. We all have northern accents.

Plenty would use that argument to say that I will never be any other than working class. In reality I do not care, I just think it is interesting that some argue that there is still such a strong class divide.

The other weird thing about class in the UK though is when people insist they are working class because their grandfather was a miner, even though their parents were doctors and they're an architect

A lot of my colleagues DCs 20 something DCs would fall into the above category. We work in an extremely niche scientific field where a few of us have typical working class northern backgrounds and have started at an entry level fairly unskilled level but a few have, over the years become experienced and educated to a level where they are world wide experts in their field, present at international conferences, publish papers, earn reasonably high wages, live in nice middle class areas.

Their DCs have gone to Russell Group univerisities and are now professionals working in engineering (the clean deskbound variety, not the build an oil refinery from scratch type), banking or similar professions.

Yes, I would argue that upper middle class (i.e. bankers, lawyers, the Middletons) is where one really wants to be- i.e. both rich and educated and where most of the globally mobile top tier that runs the show are from. Being upper class (i.e. aristocracy) often isn't always that great because a lot of the wealth isn't liquid and many of the aristocracy aren't that cash rich at all. You can't become aristocracy, but you can become UMC from relatively normal beginnings. I know several partners at magic circle law firms and senior bankers/hedge fund managers whose parents were teachers/mid tiers of civil service.

What you rarely see is real rags to riches (multi-tier, single generational social mobility) but that's very rare anywhere.

The other weird thing about class in the UK though is when people insist they are working class because their grandfather was a miner, even though their parents were doctors and they're an architect.

Or lollies as my friend calls sweets.

A poke of chips!

Haven't heard that it years. I'm up North (England) and it's sometimes used for a little paper cone of something like sweets or chips.

The first time I visited the North of Ireland was in Summer time. Lovely place.

They call an ice cream cone a "poke" up there. Cracked me up, as we have a slightly more salacious meaning for that word!

So a question like "would you like a poke, we are going to have one now" had us in stitches.

I'm from NI. The thing that shocked me when I started to get into MN and read more and more threads, is just how utterly obsessed the English are with class. I was genuinely baffled by it. Still am. So much ink spilled on the subject, so many threads end up being about class.

It's not like that here, at all. Of course there are differences in class but they are less perceptible and there is no obsession. It's completely different to England.

We also have had more social mobility here, the grammar school system remained intact and many people (like my parents) came from very poor farming backgrounds but passed the 11+, went from grammar schools into university (all for free) and did very well for themselves in business or professional jobs.

@SenecaFalls The USA's system is very different and no where close to what the uk has.
Thanks @CheersMedea. It can only get close to the Americans (which has it technicality too) understanding if there was no monarchy. As long as you have the monarchy you will have people moving up and down between working and middle possibly upper middle but harder to break the top. Being mega rich ad elite does not give you accesses into the upper class. If it did, all the Russians billionaires in London would be on the same level as the queen and all her her royally related aristocrats.
From reading what Emma mcquiston has said before about what that circle is like, you can't just become one. Money can't buy you entry.

@ModreB you come across like inspiration. Your determination makes a mockery of people who complain about not being able to manage on £100k. However, I do know that it's all relative.
Average U.K. Wage is £27k. Average private school is £14k a year. It would t work for most people now, would it? Unless you are a two income family on that amount With one child.
I don't know how you would mange now on that amount too.

"The upper class in modern societies is the social classs* composed of the wealthiesttmembers of society, who also wield the greatest political powerr.[1] According to this view, the upper class is generally distinguished by immense wealth which is passed on from generation to generation.[2][unreliable source?e?^]* Prior to the 20th century, the nomenclature aristocracyy* was widely used. [3]
Because the upper classes of a society may no longer rule the society in which they are living, they are often referred to as the old upper classes and they are often culturally distinct from the newly rich middle classes that tend to dominate public life in modern social democracies.[citation neededed^]* According to the latter view held by the traditional upper classes, no amount of individual wealth or fame would make a person from an undistinguished background into a member of the upper class as one must be born into a family of that class and raised in a particular manner so as to understand and share upper class values, traditions, and cultural norms. The term is often used in conjunction with terms like "upper-middle classs," "middle classs," and "working classs" as part of a model of social stratificationn."
I thought this was interesting take from wiki.

The drinking culture in the U.K
The fact everything starts and end with 'a drink'.
People drinking when they're not actually thirsty can never get my head around that one.
Humour in the U.K seems to revolve around either sex or drinking or being drunk.
People airily declaring they committed awful acts because of too much drink, and people nod understandingly, this is acceptable. No one questions, 'why didn't you stop drinking when you realised you were getting tipsy'? all very odd.

In the U.S the sheer amount of obese children in every corner as soon as you step off the plane.
The food portion sizes.

In Barbados, men's name all seem to begin with 'Saint' i.e Saint john, Saint Stephen etc. Whats that all about?

Bahamas -Ridiculous portion sizes again, everything spilling over the plate.
Not a vegetable in sight, all complete stodge. apparently all the veg coming in from wherever? gets quickly bought up by the surrounding Islands.

Being very obviously looked up and down by women in France. Not in an aggressive manner, just 'checked out'.
I asked a colleague why and she said 'we just aren't ashamed to show we are checking out the competition!'
Am quite self conscious there now.

I don't think it's defined by your parent's status anymore.

I'm not so sure. Try asking Kate Middleton.

And I think our class system is becoming like the US. I.e. forget roots... what have YOU achieved for yourself.

It's like the Indian caste tradition to condemn someone to one class because of their family's past. Not right.

But will they be upper class if they run a billion pound company?

In the US, they would, yes. It is getting less common, I agree, but I know several wealthy executives who came from very modest backgrounds.

quencher I'm sorry, but both me and DH are working class, with skilled working class jobs, and all 3 DS's went to private school. We prioritised education above everything else. Not because we wanted private, but we wanted the best we could do for our DC's.

We had no Bursaries or help from the school. We had a lot of very hard years, I could write a book on how to make a lb of mince last 3 days lol, (not the mythical chicken) but given the dire state of the state schools where we live, it was worth the sacrifice. All our boys are now grown and in good careers, but they never forget the hard times and appreciate what we did for them.

We could have had holidays, a better car, a bigger house, nicer clothes, etc. But, made our choice. Which, now, was the right one.

I believe your class is these days defined by your profession and how much money you earn in the household. I don't think it's defined by your parent's status anymore.

E.g. teacher salary 30k+ =middle class. I don't think owning a property or not comes into the middle class criteria these days either.

Upper middle would be extremely well paid people like lawyers on 90k+. It think they definitely own their property and can afford a few exotic holidays a year.

Upper class would be aristocrats etc however I would opine that the super nouveaux riche no matter how crass are included in this. This is the modern idea of upper class.