Holiday destinations that were unexpectedly lovely OR awful.

Amibambini I think you are being harsh on Saffron. She is not denying any of the racism that exists in Australia. She has said amongst her friends and family racism is unacceptable. You are suggesting she somehow is part of the problems of a vast country. Not fair. She seems to be doing what most of us do - living her own life by values that racism is not part of. There is a much bigger picture in Australia but she has not denied that.

Ami I don't dispute what you say about the politics of Australia, but this is really a thread about holiday destinations, and parts of Australia are stunningly beautiful.

'Anyone planning on Dublin, pm me please I'll sort you, great place for families, couples, individuals. Disappointed that people hated it cause they were probably in the wrong areas'

Ah don't be sad because some MNers didn't like Dublin. No it's not a Rome or a Paris where there are seventy million attractions to see so maybe not people's idea of a 'wow' weekend destination. I think it's a city whose best side is shown by living in it. It's got a beautiful coastline, it's compact, these days are lots of great restaurants, beautiful countryside is only a short drive away. And best of all it's full of witty Dubs! It's a city for living in rather than visiting imo. Like many UK cities.

• so I didn't shit myself

Marrakech was awful. Smelt awful, complete culture shock and I got food poisoning. Trouble was I only started to feel ill when we were out at a cafe and toilets charge you to get in & they hand you 2 squares of toilet roll on entry. 2 squares when you have diarrhea is not appreciated. I was so embarrassed as I had to ask a waiter in the restaurant (as the toilet attendant couldn't speak English) to just let me have free reign of the toilet and a toilet roll so I didn't myself!

"Hated Avignon (didn't manage to find the bit that wasn't a red light district)"

Did you not have a map? It's sad to go all the way to Avignon and totally miss its historical beauty.

Saffron - it doesn't matter how anti-racist you and your friends are! You could be marching every week for the closure of the detainment camps holding refugee children! It doesn't matter that people experience racism all over the world! Yes Europe and the U.K. is experiencing an increase in racism. All of these things do not detract from the fact that Australia has a race problem. That is glaringly obvious to most of the outside world yet so internalised by so many living in Australia that it is just beyond disturbing because it allows all these problems to continue unchallenged, or not challenged enough.

What is your opinion on the detention of asylum seekers in inhumane conditions? Or Australia's historically low acceptance of asylum seekers? What do you think about the incredibly low life expectancy of Indiginous Australians? The high incarceration rates? The stunningly high rates of black deaths in custody? What about the repercussions of the stolen generations. Stolen wages? I could go on and on and on! The rights won by Mabo slowly being chipped away and handed to resource extraction companies? The fact that Pauline Hanson is back and as venomous as ever? This is not even touching on how all this feeds into and off of cultural attitudes.

Banging my head on the desk here. There is so much more at stake than you and your friends being nice and non-racist. But I guess it's much easier to ignore all the boring politics, institutionalised racism and just focus on how bloody nice you all are and how mean everyone is for pointing out goddamn human rights violations!

Please. Have a conversation with an aboriginal person and ask them about racism. Listen to voices outside your comfortable space. Listen without being offended. Put your precious white fragility aside for just 5 minutes.

Because, and this is the last time I'm going to say it, when you refuse to see something and deny its existence, you allow it happen. You collude in it.

I've only been to Cornwall twice (St Ives area and then Mousehole) but have found people in shops, cafes etc generally delightful and, at worst, polite and pleasant. Maybe it depends where you go?

Croatia - the Istrian peninsula. Booked a cheap week away and we were expecting cheap and cheerful but it was by far the best holiday we've had. Beautiful towns and so many interesting places to go, and the food!!! Amazing.

I didn't enjoy New York. I'm pleased I went and saw the things we did, but it was so hot (30+ each day) and we seemed to spend hours each day waiting for buses, which would turn up and not stop because they were already full. The hotel was nice enough but the service was by far the rudest I've encountered anywhere in the world.

Didn't like Cornwall, miserable people who obviously don't like anyone who isn't local.
Loved Madrid, although wasn't on holiday, I used to live there!
Jamaica was wonderful too.
Didn't like New York.

Lanzarote is not classically pretty but has really interesting landscape that you won't see elsewhere. The vineyards and the lava areas are weirdly beautiful. We went there as a compromise holiday (I was pregnant and wanted winter sun but not too long a flight) and it was unexpectedly really nice - we stuck to the inland bits where the locals/arty ex pats live and avoided the package tour centric coasts. (Considering going back this winter with 2 small DC, but that would be a very different resort based holiday.)

I had a great time in Australia, did the tried and tested backpacker route from Sydney to cairns. Only disappointment was Bondi beach and the Gold Coast. Not idyllic at all (plus the Olympic volleyball court was being set up on Bondi so it was a bit of a building site). But Fraser Island/Sydney/Byron Bay/whitsundays all brilliant! This was 16 years ago mind.

Other gems - Beijing (if you can stand the crowds and pollution there are some fascinating sights), Iceland, Snowdonia, North Yorkshire. Many more UK places.

We went to Atlantic City once and stayed at the Trump Taj Mahal. We had fairly low expectations but it didn't come close to living up to them. It's like a giant Knutsford Services with slot machines and an underlying stink of stale cigarettes.

Mrsjayy I've just got back from Las Vegas - it was my 50th birthday treat from DH.

When I first arrived I really thought oh god what have we done but I think that was just tiredness for the flight etc (had seen Lionel Richie at the O2 the night before flight ). I absolutely loved it in Vegas. We stayed in the Mandarin Oriental which I highly recommend, it had no casino so it is a bit of an oasis in the madness . We did a pink jeep tour of the Grand Canyon and the Hoover Dam - nobody else had booked the tour so it was like having our own private tour guide. We did a show every night including an Elvis impersonator (we were in Vegas!). Thoroughly recommend seeing Raiding the Rock Vault at the Tropicana.

It was our first holiday in 17 years without the DCs so I had high expectations and I wasn't disappointed. You have to embrace it. At one show we were sitting 6 feet away from Nicholas Cage and his very young girlfriend (ok it was Matt Goss's show at Caesers ).

Only thing I would say is probably don't go in July like we did - average temperature 38 - 40 degrees!

bitoutofpractice don't want to derail, just want to say that racism is completely socially unacceptable among my friends, colleagues and basically everyone I know in Australia. It exists, but is not a universal feature. Just as I am sure among your friends it is not socially acceptable to abuse Eastern Europeans post brexit - yet this is currently happening in the UK.

ergo in Portland I loved the big old redwood trees, great food, lots of fresh cherries, a bookshop that covers three blocks in the city, a chamber music festival, just a unique feel to the place. I was there without DC so can't comment on what they would have been doing!

Lanzarote is like a moon scape and quite ugly imo!
Cairo was scary and crazy.
Vegas was like a theme park. and slightly odd.
San Francisco was awful, loads of spaced out weirdos tramps and so much rubbish.
In fact I found the whole of USA rude, dirty with such ignorant people.

Canada - the complete opposite, beautiful people and manners!

Australia Bloody love it! Have travelled extensively round it and much prefere it to NZ.

Absolutelynotfabulous -

Liked:
Rome - amazing architecture, full of history, lots to do

Amsterdam - clean, friendly, good atmosphere, felt safe

Lake Garda - breathtaking views, relaxing

Disliked:

Paris - dirty, felt unsafe as we were lone women and were stared at and shouted at on the streets. An aggressively persistent street vendor grabbed my arm when I walked past and when I pulled away and told him to get lost, he began screaming at me in front of everyone, calling me a f*ing bitch etc. Would never return.

Salou - pretty but dull. Full of British chavs shouting and getting drunk every day. Maybe it was just the hotel I stayed in though!

lulu couldn't help laughing at your dh's unfeasibly large testicle, sorry. .

Reminds me of the let-down of Kyoto. Squandered the last of my money on a bullet train trip there (from Tokyo), only to be bitten on the arse by some very hungry insect.

I didn't even get to see Mt Fuji as shrouded in mist, and returned home nursing a very itchy, swollen arse.

Also loved Montana and New York. Was looking forward to the Maine Coast but was disappointed. Made me realise how lucky we are in that there are footpath s along the coast. In Maine you're lucky if you catch glimpses of the sea between the mansions. Same goes for the coast North of Savannah and Charlston, built up with minimum sensitivity.

I'm loving all the praise for Lanzarote. It's so beautiful. I love playa blanca, it's quiet but still has lovely cocktail bars and beautiful restaurants. You're able to get the boat over to fueteventura for the day which is lovely too. The Princesa yaiza hotel is amazing, pricy but amazing.

Loved Cuba. We travelled around by bus and found it really interesting. Also Eastern Turkey. Interesting with friendly people and great public transport. I loved Zagreb! We were going to only stay one night but instead stayed for 3. Would definitely go back.

There just wasn't enough to do in Dublin. It wasn't the fact that we went to the tourist bits, we were not interested in hanging around in bars. Look at the tourist buses that go around Dublin. These are the bits most tourists see. And it is fairly dull and lacks charm.

saffron - can you say what you liked about Portland, Oregon pls? My DC are nearing teenagerdom and we are pondering West Coast for a holiday in a few years time. Not LA, Grand Canyon etc as used to live there, but fancied Portland, Seattle and poss SFO.