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Genuinely interesting stuff you learned at school/university/work

214 replies

MrsHathaway · 25/07/2016 11:26

At a tangent from an otherwise rather tedious thread, some of us started talking about the history of the English language.

I did a paper called something like History and Structure of the English Language at university and honestly it didn't feel at all like work. The complicated bits have faded into the dusty corners of my brain, but some interesting snippets have remained within easy grasp.

For example, you can see a lot of the geopolitical history of the British Isles in what we now call English. Very basic words like low numbers (two, three) and natural features (sun, land, water) have their roots in our very earliest history and have scarcely changed since the Stone Age. They're also very similar to their equivalents in languages local at the time - northern European languages like Swedish, German, etc.

Place names come in odd clumps too - there are areas in eg Yorkshire and the Highlands which have very Norse names, and often there will be a geographical boundary between Norse place names and Anglo Saxon place names, such as a wide river or mountain ridge.

French came next, with the Normans in the eleventh century. A lot of our food words come from that period, including beef, pork, salmon, etc.

As English eyes looked further and further overseas we started adding more exotic ingredients to our kitchens and words to our vocabularies. Tomatoes, chocolate!

ANYWAY

We're often told that we won't use 90% of what we learn at school or even university, although we don't know which 90%. But I think it's almost always worth learning stuff for its own sake, if only because it's mildly interesting for one day or breaks the ice at one party where you happen to meet your soul mate.

So go on, what snippets have you retained from your years of formal education that are genuinely interesting in their own right? Can be a tiny thing or a major complicated theory, but it must be interesting - at least interesting enough for us to say "well, fancy that".

I'll leave you with this: in Japanese there was no word for "thank you". There were lots of ways of expressing gratitude, but no single expression in the European way. Then the Portuguese came, and suddenly the Japanese were trading with them. They used lots of hand gestures and gradually a kind of pidgin developed to allow them to communicate until there were enough on each side speaking the other's language. But one legacy from that time and that pidgin is a single-word "thank you" in Japanese: arigato. Which you'll notice is remarkably similar to the Portuguese obrigado.

OP posts:
LoucheLady · 27/07/2016 08:54

Well yes, but very few fields are so specialised that they consist of one person who can't be replaced if they die. Shame you couldn't find a replacement to work with, it's a fascinating area (not mine, I only know about it through Steven Pinker's Language Instinct).

Mrscog · 27/07/2016 08:54

Brilliant thread - I've bookmarked as I haven't got time to read the whole thing now.

But.. one thing that stayed with me from A level Human Biology is that when you're ill , the symptoms of the illness aren't always directly caused by the virus/bacteria, they're your immune system fighting illnesses off.

So for instance, when you have a sore throat, the sore throat starts when your immune system 'notices' the bacteria/virus which has invaded your throat cells and starts killing off layers of cells to get rid of them which makes you have a sore throat. It's not the actual virus that makes them sore.

Was a revolationary moment for me and changed the way I thought about illness - I came to think 'at least my body has spotted it! rather than 'fuck another bloody cold'.

MrsHathaway · 27/07/2016 08:53

Is there a rule about this that might make learning French easier?

If you ask a native speaker they will look at you and probably shrug Gallicly and say "ah ben" and explain slightly distastefully that they just are and isn't the intrinsic femininity of a table completely obvious?

You can often tell by the endings of words, which certainly got me through a lot of Latin, German and Spanish. French though ... bof.

OP posts:
MrsHathaway · 27/07/2016 08:50

I'm kind of surprised by that MrsHathaway, the point about colours is fairly non-specialist surely?

Neurolinguistics is very specialist. I can't remember what the paper was called but something like Language and the mind.

re: colour boundaries, I took part in a completely fantastic colour survey of which the results can be found here. (NSFW: language)

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CuttedUpPear · 27/07/2016 08:49

On the subject of language (I'm studiously ignoring the statistics posts as they befuddle me) does anyone know why certain objects in French (and I assume other Latin languages) are feminine, and others are masculine?
Is there a rule about this that might make learning French easier?

LoucheLady · 27/07/2016 08:44

But the lecturer died and it's so specialised they couldn't replace her.

I'm kind of surprised by that MrsHathaway, the point about colours is fairly non-specialist surely?

French DH and I definitely differ on where we put the limit between, say, red and orange. I have a hat I swear is orange that he swears is red. DS (2) is growing up bilingual, it's so cute to see him figuring out the rules of language and trying to apply them. The other day he came out with "stroke pas le leg à Daddy" Grin

My exact grasp on this is hazy, but on the linguistics front there was a consonant shift as well as a vowel shift, so that the Portuguese say Bacalhau and the Germans say Kabeljau for cod.

BestIsWest · 27/07/2016 08:43

Fascinating thread.

Thanks for mentioning the Hockney book about lenses. I read it many years ago and have been trying to remember who it was by/ what it was called.

Also on the words for colour and red being the first word, the Greeks supposedly had no word for blue. As in Homer's 'wine dark sea' - wine of course being red so using it for a comparison of tone or shade I guess.

Through the Language Glass: How Words Colour Your World by Guy Deutscher explains it much better than me.

Brekekekex · 27/07/2016 08:35

All my favourites are evolution-related. For example, tiger moths have evolved to produce a clicking sound when they fly, at exactly the right frequency to jam bat echolocation, reducing the chances of them being eaten by a bat Smile

MrsHathaway · 27/07/2016 08:34

Excellent stuff.

Don't you all feel cleverer now? I know I do.

More please.

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RJnomore1 · 27/07/2016 08:14

I don't think any of you are getting Gertrude's point - and thanks to her I finally do get it!

When you refuse a box in DOND it is opened so you can see what is in it. Gertrude is referring to the end game so if you have opened all boxes bar 2 and you now know one of those boxes contains the star prize.

So you start with one box you pick or 1/20 chance you have the star prize while the other 19 boxes have a 19/20 chance of them contains it.

YOU THEN ELIMINATE 18 OF THE BOXES.

The chance on each side remains the same as at the start. You picked one box from 20 so you have a 1/20 chance it is the star prize.

The other side had a 19/20 chance but as you now know 18 of them are not it that 19/20 has transferred to the one remaining box.

MajesticSeaFlapFlap · 27/07/2016 07:48

Not a specific thing but im a massive history nut.
I completely flunked out school getting e's and ungraded but i got a b in history. I love it.

I had a very passionate teacher who would bouce in excitement when telling us things.
In Fact i still live in the area and most of the people i know who were taught by him love history as well.
My teen goes into his year 9 class in September and im genuinely excited for him.

Just shows what an amazing teacher can do

anzu66 · 27/07/2016 07:42

Lots of languages don't really make a distinction between blue and green, or at least have a word that refers to both.
Xanh in Vietnamese for example can be used to describe the color of the sky and the color of tree leaves, and one will say "sky xanh" or "tree leaf xanh" if one wants to be really specific.
Qing in Mandarin is basically the same word, with the same blue/green issue, and so is aoi in Japanese. Interestingly, in Japan, the 'green' traffic lights are sometimes green, but you do also see ones that are a very blueish green. More blue than green IMO.

On a completely different note, I was told in French literature that the length of an act in plays was determined by the length of time it would take for a candle (to illuminate the stage) to burn down.

DadDadDad · 27/07/2016 00:42

Exactly, Drop.

If you imagine 3000 (representative) episodes: in 1000, the contestant will initially pick the door to the car, while in 2000, the contestant will initially pick the door to a goat (because 2 out of 3 doors lead to goats). In those latter 2000, the host does give you additional information by opening a goat door - because he can't open the door with the car, and so by switching you get the car. It's only in the first 1000 situations that the host opening the door doesn't help, and switching is a mistake. 2 episodes out of 3 switching works. But this is dependent on the host knowing where the car is (otherwise in 1/3 of the episodes, he would reveal the car prematurely).

In DOND, the host (and banker) have no knowledge of the contents, so they cannot help provide increased information about which of the unrevealed amounts is in the contestant's box.

Imagine a simplified version where the player picks one of the 22 boxes, and keeps opening the others (randomly; we have to assume that they are not psychic), ignoring banker offers (banker's offers only indicate the value of all that's unopened, the banker has no more idea than the contestant which unrevealed amount is in their box), until they are down to two unopened boxes and offered a switch. Does it help to switch? No! Now we have to consider say 46,200 episodes (or simulations if Gertrude wants to have a go simulating it)...

Star In 2,100 episodes, the contestant is holding prize 1 (the lowest):
of those, in 100 episodes the other unopened box contains prize 2
in 100 episodes, the other unopened box contains prize 3
...
in 100 episodes, the other unopened box contains prize 22 (the highest).
IN THIS CASE, SWITCHING WOULD BE BENEFICIAL IN ALL 2100 EPISODES.

Star In 2,100 episodes, the contestant is holding prize 2:
of those, in 100 episodes, the other unopened box contains prize 1 (worse to switch)
in 100 episodes, the other unopened box contains prize 3
...
in 100 episodes, the other unopened box contains prize 22
IN THIS CASE, SWITCHING WOULD BE BENEFICIAL IN 2000 EPISODES.

Star Same analysis for 2,100 episodes where the contestant is holding prize 3: SWITCHING WOULD BE BENEFICIAL IN 1900 EPISODES.

Star Ditto prize 4 ... 1800 EPISODES

Star ...

Star all the way to 2,100 episodes where the contestant has prize 22 (the highest) and it would BE BENEFICIAL TO SWITCH IN 0 EPISODES.

Add up all the episodes where it is beneficial to switch: 2100 + 2000 + 1900 + 1800 + ... + 100 + 0 = 23,100, which is exactly half the total episodes. Switching has a 50:50 chance only of getting you a better prize - same as flipping a coin.

cdtaylornats · 27/07/2016 00:18

The Portugese left words in many places - in Goa they left vindaloo.

apatheticfallacy · 27/07/2016 00:16

Please forgive the autocorrect!

apatheticfallacy · 27/07/2016 00:13

Great thread!

Remember the biblical sorry of how David killed the giant Goliath with one stone?

There's a theory that Goliath had a pituitary tumour causing an abnormal amount of growth hormone to be released. After puberty this causes what we call acromegaly (literally large tips - the hands/feet/wars/jaw) but if it occurs before your skeleton has fully fused then it causes gigantism. Looking at the bible in depth it seems like giliaths family had similar and associated traits suggesting an autosominal dominant pattern. You don't see 'Giants' nowadays because we treat them - there are many associates health problems - but you can see a real skeleton of one in the Huntarian museum if you like.

What makes it more interesting is that the pituitary gland is seated directly below the optic chiasm - the point at which the nerve fibres from ranch of your eyes meet and half cross over to enter both halves of your brain. A pituitary tumour that may cause gigantism may also press on the crossing of these nerves causing a bi-temporal hemianiopia. That is to say a blindness that affects your peripheral vision on each side.

This kind of familial tumour would explain goliath's stature and also account for him not noticing a stone from a sling hurtling towards him from the side.

DropYourSword · 27/07/2016 00:06

The MH one I can explain. If you pick a box there's a 1/3 chance of picking the car, therefore there's 2/3 chance it's not your box. Because the host then has to remove one of the boxes with a goat in, he HAS to remove the only goat that's there if the car is the second box. Therefore once the host has been removed the remaining box MUST contain the car 2/3 of the time. Therefore you'd be better to then swap. Obviously in the 1/3 chance that you actually picked the car then the host can remove either of the goats and if you swap you'd lose the car. BUT, statistically of you swap you are more likely to get the car.

However, I disagree that it works the same in DOND. Because a step is removed...the host DOESN'T remove a box and therefore it's all just chance. I don't agree with Gertrude, BUT I'm not a mathematician so would be happy for someone to explain if I'm wrong.

JinRamen · 26/07/2016 23:49

Can someone work through the numbers of the mh and dond problems please?

MrsHathaway · 26/07/2016 23:31

Not all languages express all things the same way.

For example, English distinguishes between red and pink; Russian distinguishes between blue and light blue. An English native speaker sees a difference between red and pink and gets twitchy if the wrong word is used; so too a Russian faced with a light blue "blue".

However, when looking at basic colours, all languages follow the same pattern. If you only distinguish one colour other than dark and light, it's red. Then blue and green. And so on. Early English didn't bother distinguishing a great deal further than that because really you're looking at mud, sky, plants and blood and your life doesn't vary much beyond that. Foxes and hair are "red" in English because we called them red long before we had a word for orange.

In English we count cows and measure milk (a cow, many cows; some milk, more milk) but in other languages it's the other way round. And if you offer a Spot The Difference to people of different native languages, changes in quantity will be spotted at different rates depending on whether they mentally count them or just measure them.

Languages only develop counting once the civilisation trades with outsiders.

Your philosophy frames your language, but your language also frames your philosophy.

Do the English have such a problem with gender politics because our linguistic gender is so tied to genitals? Do languages with less-sexual gender allow people more freedom to describe humans ungenderedly? If a table can be "she" why not a person with a penis?

That's the paper I wanted to do. But the lecturer died and it's so specialised they couldn't replace her. What a loss to the university and the world.

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GertrudeMoo · 26/07/2016 23:24

NotDavidTennant, you don't have to guarantee it happening for it to have a certain probability. I was talking about the probability in the specific situation whereby all boxes are eliminated apart from the one you initially chose and one other, with top prize still in play.
I don't see any logic in your last paragraph at all, but it's 11:26pm!

LadyCallandraDaviot · 26/07/2016 23:20

"Mythbusters" covered that MH problem (seems funny using MH in this context, it always means Mental Health to me...)

One fact I like, which is kind of obvious, but kind of obscure at the same time, is that the water in the world is the same water that has always been there - so dinosaurs drank your cup of tea, and/or it was part of a glacier, and/or the Indian Ocean etc etc

Dontlaugh · 26/07/2016 23:19

Wow, great thread. I can tell you red blood cells live for 120 days.
Also, I was fascinated by the theory of reciprocity whilst I studied sociology at uni. Sometimes referred to as the theory of social exchange. The reciprocity was more old
School and focused on sexual relations; the University jock going out the the impoverished but stunning female student etc. It wasn't a bit pc, I still ponder on it though!

QueenofLouisiana · 26/07/2016 23:01

So many linguisticians! I didn't realise there were so many of us on MN.

I was fascinated by the dialectic continuum in place across Europe. I loved the idea the people who official spoke different languages could understand each other as the local variations were so similar.

I used to wonder about child language acquisition. If you brought up a child telling it the blue was called green (for instance)- it is simply another shade of green (as in navy and sky are both shades of blue). Would they ever know any different? How long would that take? Would they continue to consider if as green?

I think I got thinking about that while contemplating the work on Carrie.

NotDavidTennant · 26/07/2016 22:50

MH is designed so that the contestant always has a choice between a car and a goat at the end.

In DOND if the game was that all the lower prizes were eliminated and you could guarantee that one of the two boxes left at the end had the top prize, then it would be equivalent to MH and you would swap.

But what you're ignoring is that the boxes are opened by chance and in 9/10 games the top prize is eliminated before the final two. Therefore, there is only a 1/10 chance that the top prize is in the last two boxes. There was a 1/20 chance the you picked the top prize in the first place, so the chance that the top prize is in the second to last box is 1/10 - 1/20 = 1/20. Therefore the odds are equal between sticking and swapping.

JinRamen · 26/07/2016 22:47

Haven't read thread, but it sounds interesting! At work so really marking place with a theory I heard at uni.

Apparently the kiwis have the 'flattest' accent in the world, with no ' on their vowels (which is apparently where accents come from iykwim, not just that they have the symbols above them but it is the difference in how we say the vowels. ) anyway, as you move around the world ala the time zones, the accent gets less flat. Until you get to America which is the least flat. (Can't think of the words as I am at work so doing this between customers) and apparently we are trending toward flatter vowels the world over so we will eventually all end up sounding like we come from New Zealand! This is what I was told, would love to know if there is any truth to it!