I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

YY MeeWhoo to the great Spanish baby/children's clothes - also in our town there were several sets of identical twins - of course always dressed identically and fabulously. I have to say though that dd was dressed in classic british m/c unisex baby clothes (largely because I had two friends with little boys exactly 1 year older ) and I'm not sure anyone ever thought anything of it.

DH & I did have a theory on the multiple layers of warm clothes in what we'd consider very hot weather. Maybe if you are always used to being really quite hot, then it doesn't seem so unpleasant in the summer time when it is insanely hot to British bodies used to cooler temps? Having said that IME people in Almería complain more about the heat in summer than British people do about the rain ever, so if that is the plan it doesn't work that well!

In Estonia, if you would ask the local mumsnet about after school babysitter for your school-age child, you would be told not to be ridiculous and wrap them in cotton wool - surely a 7-year old can just take public transport and be home alone for a few hours, til parents finish work.

In France, I have not found any restaurants where children are not welcome, including Michelin starred ones (dogs are also welcome in most, but that's another story). But there are also rarely ever any special activities or games available, children are expected to sit at the table just like adults, and behave. I have never seen any children shoving fistfuls of spaghetti in their mouths - either they use napkins, knives and forks, or are spoonfed.

Dodi can I have a German Mutti badge? I caught myself worrying this morning about my daughter going out this morning on a very sunny day and getting "a cold neck" as she wasn't wearing a scarf. I even tried to insist but she brushed me off. I was very seriously worried that so much neck flesh was exposed. No loving mother would let her child out in such a state surely?

I'm so proud of myself, I feel quite emotional and a little tearful.

well working professional couples see less of their children and use twee phrases like quality time

I've thought of a difference with France actually now. I am quite laid back about colds and coughs (despite both my DCs having been hospitalised for complications as babies, I don't assume every cough will turn into pneumonia iyswim) and other bugs. I watch other parents picking up children from preschool and nursery and if the child coughs the parents always say something along the lines of "you're coughing! you're ill". There is a tendancy to rush kids to the paediatricians for all kinds of minor ailments, a real constant fear of illness and demanding everything be treated.

Similar with bumps and bruises. Parents seem to panic quite a bit more over here. My DD2 hurt her mouth at nursery and the staff were tripping over themselves to reassure me I didn't have to take her to hospital and get it stitched up, whereas the thought hadn't even crossed my mind.

Medical people and nursery staff seem to like the non panic attitude but I have received some filthy looks from other parents when I have shrugged at hearing the list of various minor injuries my kids have had that day and not really asking questions. I would guess I have rolled my eyes at seeing them panic over a bit of snot too though so it goes both ways.

I think I watched that on YouTube recommended by an expat friend here. Was it called "How to be German" or something? It was pretty interesting the only very major problem was the Brits of course spoke no German and expected everyone to speak to them in English, which being polite and well educated the Germans dutifully did. Unfortunately this had the effect of making the Germans look very stereotypically serious and without a sense of humour - while I have found them to be in fact a very jolly nation who really enjoy their leisure time and protect it jealousy as a society. They would however be extremely conscious that they wanted to make a good impression if speaking English and would be focussing on not making grammatical mistakes etc. as language standards are very high here. Germans always apologize for their "terrible English" while speaking fluently. Americans will say they speak German if they took a year of classes in High School.

I think they should have thrown the Brits in and just had subtitles to really see how Germans do things.

There was a great documentary on BBC2 or C4 last year looking at the cultural differences between the UK and Germany - with a couple of exceptions, I liked a lot about the German model. As someone said, more like the UK of the 70s (without the strikes and riots). Anyone remember what it was called?

Love the independence of kids from other countries - I got the look from a friend the other day as I left my 10yo at home for about 20 mins! Next year when DD2 moves on to secondary school, I will have to make sure I fully escort DD3 (will be in year 2) into school. At the moment I leave the pair of them to walk together - there are no roads to cross from where I leave them, I love the fact that they have that tiny bit of responsibility (actually, the 6 year old has a better sense of direction and self-preservation than the 10yo!)

Oh Sangria I am peeing myself

What about school trips? Where did your children go? My son was taken to the local bakery and they made German cookies - not too shoddy! They also go on Wandertags (Wandering (Hiking) Days) where they go on long marches through the forest and kindly exhaust your children for you.

it is a great thread.

I didn't know that about school trips ikea sounds lovely :)

Congratulations Dodi1978 now your thread features in a Mumsnet cultural tradition!

A friend of mine married to a Bosnian said she scandalized the neighbourhood by taking her baby out for walks in the stroller/buggy as supposedly a baby should not go outside for the first three months! This was about 18 years ago now however. Did you hear about that WelliesandPJs?

Great thread. Bookmarking it for bedtime reading :)

We lived in Bosnia while ds1 was aged 2 to 5 and we were bad parents when:

• we let him go barefoot indoors when there was an R in the month. Thick socks and thick slippers are all that are allowed Sept to April, regardless of central heating and underfloor heating.
• we didn't insist that he wear socks with his sandals outside in the summer (with no R in the month!)
• we didn't ever layer him up enough, even when we made an effort to dress him in what we were being told to for trips out!
• we didn't keep him indoors ALL the time during the snow months
• we let him feed himself. I was always trying to hide my feelings when DS1 was stuffing his face nicely and next to him, our friend's nephew was sat on a lap being spoon fed...right up to when they were both 5!
• we let him drink from a normal cup once he mastered it, instead of giving him a bottle.
• we fed him the same food as us instead of polenta, meat paste on bread, processed meat slices, and lots and lots of sweets chocolate and crisps!
• we didn't encourage him to learn to push, shove, punch other boys in parks and cafe play areas
• we tried teaching him to write and read before he was 7.

Am aware I'm sounding a bit negative but on the whole it was a lovely place for him to spend his early years.

Meewhoo I'm laughing at some of the boys in that lookbook. I imagine so many of them are looking at their feet thinking, "What the f*ck are these shoes?" Do Spanish boys really dress like that?

No probs or criticism implied lovesmycake just interesting that national mindset also does seem to influence decisions parents make. By US and UK standards German parents have a lot of support with a society that is more like the 70s in terms of safety and life balance (shops closed by 2pm Saturday and not open Sunday). But Germans must be comparing their situation differently and they seem to see life as very stressful. So it's all relative.

I do hear complaints here that salaries are low but housing costs are also very reasonable it seems.

I have worked in a few nurseries and schools in Sweden and the attitude to sen seems to be inclusive and accepting.

In Sweden we have a simalar attitude to Norway regarding climbing trees and rocks, the children are allowed to climb and explore as they wish but it isn't mandatory and the children do it to varying degrees depending on their personality, ability and interests. There are always other options, it intra specific climbing trees class.

Children with disabilities are very well supported at school and nursery, they have a one to one carer who enables the child to join in as much as possible.

School trips are not allowed to go ahead unless every child in the class can take part, schools must fund the trips themselves so no child is left out due to family finances. There must be a way for all children to join in the activity.

My dp's aunt is blind and she was taken on all sorts of trips whilst at school, skiing with a guide, cycling on a tandom, she was allowed to climb trees and her teachers would verbally guide her from the ground.

There seems to be less of a rush to diagnose young children with specific learning disabilities and asd, the children showing signs of issues are given support at nursery before a diagnosis is given.

Ah sorry honey I was calling the Norwegians free range, though reading back I see that's not clear :)

In terms of child rearing I would say that in general Germans are hypochondriacs and love to tell you all about their latest health issues and discuss them at length with others in stealth boasting sessions. I imagine that spills over into health worries for their children so I wouldn't exactly call them free range because they seem to enjoy worrying.

HoneyandRum, I am not but I do have another kind of health insurance that might cover part of it.

I know that children in care in Germany live in a kind of 'village' environment - large foster communities - is that the same for children with SEN? Don't want to derail the thread but am genuinely interested.

Ae you in Germany BoffinMum? Talk to you dr she/he should be able to recommend some locations and it is covered by your insurance.