I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

monopoly123

Yes, the Finnish baby box is true. It is amazing, a lot of clothes, accessories, toys, bibs, reusable nappies, and the box can be used as a first bed for the baby!

Link (in Finnish, with pictures)

Sadly we didn't get one as we only moved there just before the birth! But they sent one to Prince George when he was born I'm told!

travis allegedly petit filous (and even worse any type of Quark) makes the poor little ones' kidneys combust due to too much protein. Even 50 years later it still can be linked back to the petit filous, say the tin-foil hatted time travellers.

Oh I didn't think Wibbly was exaggerating in the slightest! I have an uncle who lives in Manhattan and he and his wife (who grew up there) are very much like that. The anxiety over preschool for their DD had me giggling like a loon, though I sympathized. That's just the way it is there.

My uncle and my dad are close in age but my dad became a father at 18 whereas my uncle didn't until his 40's, so his daughter and my son are only a year apart or so. It's been a really interesting look at the different cultural things!

My uncle and his wife, as I said, were both early 40's when their DD was born (my aunt may have been 39). I was 24 when I was pregnant with DS and that was frightfully young to them, but normal for where I grew up. They had a lot of choice and agonized over schools, whereas we just sent DS to the only one in the town...it was either that or homeschool.

I'm quite strict on please, thank you, excuse me, etc with DS. They "don't want to put pressure" on DD. Also she is shy and doesn't speak when people talk to her sometimes, whereas I would consider that rude and wouldn't allow DS to do it. (She doesn't have SN, selective mutism or anything like that.)

They are fairly neurotic people overall (though lovely!) and it seems like most of their circle is too. I'm pretty solidly Midwestern in that you just shake it off and get on with it.

Honey that makes total sense :) I know we are far more violent as a culture overall. I just meant in my particular area, I don't give guns another thought. I certainly wouldn't allow the DC to be at a house with unsecured guns but other than that, guns just are. Just a tool for getting food.

Speaking of my uncle (and guns) it made me bite back a laugh when one of his friends was stealth boasting about his daughter loving pheasant. Where I come from that's redneck food...it only costs a bullet! :o

Thank you kudzu, if you have any questions ever feel free to ask.

I have to say the fear of the harm caused by wet hair seems to cross national borders...except for in the UK.

I need to catch up on this thread, but has the "Finnish baby box" been discussed - is it true, in Finland when you have your first baby you get issued a box containing basic clothes, bed clothes, (duvet, pillow?) and the baby can sleep in the box? Then 2nd child you can opt out and get cash? I have images of lots of Finnish babies, dressed in government issued onesies sleeping in cardboard boxes.

trying again for peanut link

Sorry!

In France, I am considered crazy for :
-Refusing an epidural.
-Breastfeeding until about 3 and never buying a jar of baby food.
-Co-sleeping.
And I am not even going to mention homeschooling.

In DH's home country (the Berber part of Algeria), I was told off for sitting my baby in front of a table fan (it would give her pneumonia) and not using a hairdryer on DD1's hair (it would give her pneumonia too). It was 35°C!

Juneau You can refute your MIL by telling her that hot dog skins are a choking hazard for babies and toddlers!

The English obsession with perfectly shined school shoes is a puzzle to me.

Boffin that is quite a sweeping statement. Have you met every single person in the US?
Honey the US has a higher murder rate than the UK, but its rates of other crimes such as rape and drug offenses are lower.
CheerfulYank I grew up in Washington DC and I can assure you that Wibbley is not exaggerating .

CheerfulYank

That is absolutely fascinating- thank you SO much for posting. My interest in your neck of the woods was triggered by a book I read about two women who travelled around the US in search of Pie! It turned out to be quite an epic journey where they met immigrant groups all over, some of whom were the Belgians in the Kewaunee counties and the others were the Scandinavians around Door County.

A friend of mine is Finnish and uses that term 'Sisu' to describe some of her patients. It is lovely.

My ILs are American and DS1 spent the first two years of his life in the USA. I got in with a crowd of La Leche League mums who were fab - we were all into baby-wearing and BFing, BLW and making our own purees, but to my MIL this was all very strange and inexplicable. To her, BF-ing was something people did in ye olden days before formula was invented. In fact, she and oh-so-modest FIL were mortified when I merrily whipped my boob out at Thanksgiving and fed 4-week-old DS. I did go in another room, but they were red-faced with embarrassment. Me? Not bothered

As for weaning, I started with fruit and vegetable purees, then moved onto bits of banana, avocado, mashed sweet potato, etc, which MIL tolerated briefly before she started asking me when I was going to give him some 'hot dawg' and regaled me with tales of how her two DC were given hot dawg while still in their high chairs. I wasn't really sure where to start with refuting that one! She was also keen to shove sugary biscuits full of additives into his tiny hands at every opportunity and FIL thought nothing of firing up his pipe while his grandson was in the same room. Since moving back to the UK I have to say that I really appreciate the 3,000 miles of Atlantic ocean that separates us!

Hi Cheerful Yank, yep my DD can't walk to school either it's a good 10 miles away, she would need to take a bus and train and in the winter that would be in the dark as school starts at 7:45.

I appreciate that there are many differences between different regions of the US and even between neighborhoods in the same city. However, statistically the US has more violent crime (rape, murder, assault and armed robbery) than other western nations and many developing nations. My DH grew up in a Californian suburb and I would say his paranoia comes from three factors: a) Paranoid parents b) His job in which he is dealing with the aftermath of violence and c) Violence affecting his immediate family - his dad had a gun pulled on him in broad daylight, a family friend was shot to death by her boyfriend.

I know statistically it is highly unlikely that any of us will encounter violence such as this in our lives but seeing what it does to the victims every day in his work does tend to make him more aware of the dangers.

When we lived in the US we lived in a neighborhood where kids could walk to elementary and middle school. I drove our kids to school as their school was out of the neighborhood and across a freeway and at the time they were in 2nd and Kindy.

DH reminds people that a gun in the house is always more likely to be used in a suicide by one of the occupants than as protection in a robbery or used in a murder.

Germans also have more access to guns than most European nations and our babysitter's boyfriend used one to commit suicide last year. He was 19.

We are bad parents, because unlike many other parents in the Philippines, we:

• Didn't use a belly binder or band (called a bigkis) on our newborn. It's supposed to prevent colic (called kabag) and help children grow up to have a slim waist and the 'perfect' innie as opposed to an outie bellybutton. Some people place a coin on the navel before the bigkis is wrapped around the tummy as this 'will hold the abdominal contents in'

• Didn't rub chamomile oil (aceite de manzanilla) on DS's tummy to prevent or cure colic. My dad keeps giving me small bottles of it to take back to the UK

• Didn't trim DS's eyelashes to make them grow thicker and longer

• Didn't pinch his nose lightly on a regular basis to make the nosebridge higher/thinner

• Didn't make him wear a tiny red bracelet to prevent usog (a kind of hex where a baby can get ill when a stranger greets him or her, eg "Oh is this your daughter, hello, you are lovely!")

• Didn't put a small handtowel or cloth on his back underneath his clothing while out and about -- supposed to absorb sweat from playing and prevent catching a cold

• Didn't just bathe DS in the mornings -- babies will get ill from exposure to hamog (the cold afternoon or evening air; read: 28C)

• Didn't prevent him from playing out in the sun -- don't you know his skin will turn dark like a field labourer's?

• Encouraged him learning to cycle and swim -- shouldn't he really be studying??

Plus other things bringing up a child in the Philippines:

• Fat kids are healthier

• Bottle feeding until 4 or 5 years old is ok

• No travelling with a car seat; babies are fine held in arms in the front or back of the car. We were crazy, overcautious parents for bringing a car seat with us

• For middle classes and up, nanny goes everywhere with child: in the car, grocery, school bus, sitting at the restaurant table or a little way off while parents have a meal with friends, and even inside the classroom. True story: a friend said her son was so proud he didn't need nanny in the classroom with him anymore. I think he was 8

NCT newsletter article is a great idea! I am always stuck for articles. Although I don't live in a particularly multicultural or cosmopolitan town (at least compared to London where I used to live) I have nevertheless met parents from at least 15 different countries and it would be really interesting to ask them about whether things are very different in their countries of birth.

I am Finnish and living in the UK but we spent one year in Finland when DD2 was born.

When in hospital following my c-section after a day or so the midwife asked if I had weed yet, and when I said no, she produced what she called a "wee cocktail" consisting of a couple of pills and a large shot of cognac! And it worked!

You have to have a padded snowsuit and hugely expensive proper winter shoes for your DCs in winter, a "mid season" all-in-one suit for another 100 euros or so for the Autumn months, and then of course a "mud suit" plus shoes and accessories for wet weather, all at a massive cost.

Children MUST play outside at all weathers. In the winter when going to the local play centre we would zoom straight to the indoor play area while all the other children played outside and the parents stood chatting in the freezing cold!

One sunny day in June we went to the beach with DD1 aged 2.5 and 1yo DD2 and in the morning there was a national warning in all the media about the dangerous UV rays that day and that all children should wear sunglasses! When we got to the beach my girls were wearing normal swimsuits - all the other children had something like wetsuits on, goggle style sunglasses and hats!

When we had other families over for lunch or dinner it was seen as weird to serve wine with the food.

Although I was quite agog at seeing boys at my DD's school here in the UK the other day in knee-length trousers on a freezing, wet day with the temp about +7 at most!

People are not very clued up on suncream where I live. People have also asked me if my daughter is cold in the height of summer. Very strange. I think just the commenting and saying you should do this that or the other goes on a lot more here. It would be considered very rude in the UK.

Wobbly I'm American and all that sounds mad to me! :o

Except for the medicalized birth and no gas and air. I'd never even heard of G&A til Mumsnet!

Sleep training is out here too...maybe some controlled crying or the gradual retreat but leaving your baby to scream, absolutely no. And the anxiety over preschool places is definitely a city thing...here you just call and sign up. :)

I'm British but live in the US. DC1 born in London, DC2 in Washington, DC.

Where to start? Birth here was highly medicalised - 7(!) scans vs. the 3 I had in the UK, constant tests and worries about conditions that it isn't deemed necessary to test for in the UK - strep B for example. Hospital experience was good, own room, nurses generally nice. I ended up with an emergency c-section but pre this, had enquired about gas and air. Might as well have asked for a crack pipe. The hospital did have one Canadian OB/GYN who was very pro introducing gas and air but his efforts kept being thwarted for spurious insurance reasons...

I am a bad mother here for not sleep training DC2, for sometimes co-sleeping (daren't tell the paediatrician that one!), my American friends think I'm mad for not having him circumcised as this appears customary (and they cannot understand why I've refused to attend various circumcision ceremonies, religious or otherwise). Ferber is seen as the way to go - to the extent that I have a friend who tells me she listens to her baby crying in his room at night and lies crying herself, but doesn't go to him as that's what Ferber says (apparently). She is highly intelligent, a lawyer, and I just want to tell her to follow her instincts!!! She is also weaning with purée from 4 months - I'm going to do baby led weaning as I did with DC1 in the UK and even talking about it raised eyebrows...

DC1 - now a toddler. Well - talk about anxiety over preschool places!!!! And what on earth is the point of a preschool that you pay a fortune to attend, but then actually have to stay at with your child?! Or, more likely, pay a nanny to stay at with your child?! I did go to some preschool open days and was amazed that they were talking about writing preK school referral letters for 2/3 year olds. Madness!

Other things - I have a friend who was told off by an American helicopter parent for letting her child touch leaves in the park. Leaves! Who knew?! I had a lady stop her car last year and berate me because apparently DC1 wasn't wrapped up warmly enough. Loads of children seem to have various therapists for reasons I can't quite fathom. And there are companies who specialise in baby proofing your home - hmm, cos you really need to pay a self appointed 'consultant' $600 to tell you to put ornaments high up and fit stairgates...

I think it's fair to say that I align myself much more with other European expat mums/parents in terms of views on childcare, despite the many differences highlighted on this thread. Medical care here is excellent if you have the insurance to pay for it, but there is a level of competitiveness amongst parents that I never saw in London (or certainly not to this extreme!). It's always fun to drop into conversation the fact that various generations of DH's family have been to Oxbridge and we're expecting the same for our two (I couldn't give a monkey's) and then watching the local alpha mums turn green...

That is interesting Honey...here I would venture to say that 80% or so of households have guns but it's not scary or violent. A 13 year old who lived within walking distance of school but was driven would be . Kids here walk to school and ride their bikes downtown from 8 or so, younger if they have older siblings.

I manage the cinema and we often get kids or 9 or 10 on bikes who come in with friends and watch the movie.

Talking of holidays in Sardinia (you can do cheap as chips RyanAir flys into three airports) be warned that all entertainment at Italian resorts starts at about 10pm. All the kids and toddlers are up gyrating at the "Baby Disco" one of the "Animation" team stopped by last time we were there to let us know they would be starting some kind of craft project for the kids - at 11pm!

I'm American, born 'n' bred, and I'm fairly sure I'm a proper adult Boffin. :o I got married in a church and everything, no Disneyland nuptials for me! The whole "no grownups" thing is a big city "liberal" attitude. Here in the rural Midwest it's shameful to not be responsible and a hard worker.

The US was settled at vastly different times by vastly different ethnic groups, so areas of the country and sometimes even the same state are markedly different.

I have lived in Minnesota since I was 7. The area where I grew up is way up north and is part of what's called the "Finn Hook"...an area mostly settled by Finns and Norwegians and Swedes. The culture is still evident there as most of us were only 3 or so generations "off the boat".

We went out in all weathers. With snow and ice and freezing temps 5-6 months out of the year we'd have gone stir crazy otherwise! The concept of Sisu is widespread and used as a slogan on T-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.

Now I live and am raising the DCs in a different part of Minnesota- still the same state but 300 miles south- and it's different because the original ethnic mix is different.

For instance I don't have as many of the "typical" American hang ups about nudity as it was still somewhat common where I grew up for everyone to take a sauna together. And jump through a hole cut in the lake ice afterward! :)

Here my SIL tried to keep her TWO YEAR OLD ds from seeing her breastfeed her newborn did! I know DH thinks it's a bit strange sometimes that DS (almost seven) sees me in a towel and occasionaly -gasp- naked! He also saw me breastfeed every day for the nine months that DD nursed, of course.

DS went to preschool, which is optional, for just a few hours a day starting when he was 3. He didn't start kindergarten ("proper school") until this year when he was 6. I walk him to school now but he will start going by himself or with neighborhood kids at 7 or 8.

I am considered odd for: never spoonfeeding DD, co-sleeping with her til nine months, giving her herbal tea, and having her outdoors all the time. I even bundled her up and brought her out just for a short walk down the street in -30 because I needed to get out of the house.

Yes to lots of activities. DS had gymnastics at 2 then has had soccer, basketball, swimming, t-ball, and just a general sports program. Oh and tae kwon do. Not all at the same time though! :)

Yay! The classics nomination worked! :) Great thread OP

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread

Isn't the world lovely, and completely mad