I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

It's the best, isnt it, BoffinMum?

I spent some of my gap year as a teaching assistant in North India and can verify that you never see an Indian baby by itself - it's always in someone's arms, though they don't seem to mind very much whose arms. No baby is ever left to cry, someone always races to comfort it immediately.

A nappy is literally a napkin - a square of cotton cloth. As soon as it's soiled, the baby is washed down. If it shits on you, it's considered your fault for not moving quickly enough.

You also see very small children (5 and 6 year olds) taking care of their toddler siblings. Initially thought this was to do with poverty but you see it in the richest households. Really touched me, actually.

It's not all love and attention though - Indians smack liberally, pull hair, and twist ears to punish even the smallest transgressions . And not just their own kids, but anyone else's who happens to be misbehaving .

I am Italian, our dc were born and spent their first years in the UK.

In the UK I was a bad mother because:

• They went to bed at 8, which was considered late there (but shockingly early in Italy)
• I do raise my voice at times.
• I sent my dc to nursery p/t even if I was a sahp or worked from home at times.

When we came back to Italy, I was a bad mother because:

• I didn't fret if they were "sudati" (sweaty) after playing in the park.
• I didn't routinely clean their noses before going to bad with those little pumps Italians are so fond of.
• we rarely carry an umbrella or panic when it rains

My husband is from North Africa (I can feel a name change coming on)...I am English. He's from a rural area, so differences even more pronounced.

I could write a book on cultural differences
I seem to cause shock and horror with my inlaws by taking my baby outside if it is hot, cold, windy or basically any weather condition you can think of. They would be shocked that I would not wrap my baby in a double fleece blanket when it is soooo hot that if we were in UK we would have baby lying in the shade in just a nappy!
They are highly amused that my DS goes to bed at 7 (DH loves having evening time as adult time though), and think I am a bit stupid for not knowing that you rock and sing a baby to sleep (rather than teach them to lie down and go to sleep).
Discipline apparently does not apply to children under the age of about 12, and if I tell DS off, even for something really naughty, they tell me off!
Had to stop myself from flying at my MIL for feeding DS large spoons of honey (home brewed) when he was about 4 months old. At the same age DS got really ill and I got VERY told off by a pharmacist for not giving him water as well as breast milk at a very hot time of year. My DS now drinks untreated well water and seems to thrive on it!
I asked my neice what the word in their language for nappy was, she didn't know, she'd never seen one before
There must be so many more examples that I've forgotten.
On the plus side my in-laws are lovely and deal with most of our differences with humour.
I've also benefited from DHs alternative views on many issues, and 'gone over to the other side' on some things, for example, co-sleeping (although I don't do very well in the same bed, DS is 3 now and still sleeps next to us, I wouldn't change it). DH grew up on a diet of home grown and home reared food, and completely rejects any sort of processed food, which is challenging at times but does mean that DS has had a pretty good diet.
They do baby wearing not as a new fangled thing but as the only sensible way to get the necessary daily chores done, so baby is strapped on the bag, covered (of course) with a fleece blanket (including it's face, I always worry they'll suffocate), and life carries on. This is actually great I think, the child gets used to being part of day to day life without having to be the centre of attention.
What I find challenging is that people (including complete strangers) will come up to you and tell you what to do with your child, for example, put your child in the shade, or they need a hat etc etc, in a way that we'd think of as sooo rude in the UK, but I try and see it as a positive way, as a sign of a country that still rears it's children as a society.
Really enjoyed reading these!

Amrapaali, I actually did a course in that type of massage and my offspring absolutely loved it.

Agree regarding the layers in Germany. My niece was practically exploding at her christening in 29 degrees and high humidity. When I held her I realised she had a baby grow plus tights plus top under her heavy thick christening gown. It led to a row with my dsis. Even at the lunch the poor child still had her tights and top and cardigan on.

Come to think of it even my otherwise quite sane mother will wrap my dc in blankets, put socks on them and bring them hot water bottles . She must think we keep them practically naked most of the year.

I've done half my living and all my breeding in the UK and have taken a pick and mix approach to parenting . BF and FF, purée and finger food, pushchairs and slings...

This might just be a generational one but my (Australian) aunt scoffed at me for buying the buggy I bought. She called it a 'biscuit' and said the babies will be so cold in London because they hang out of them instead of more enclosed like what her children had (silver cross style?)
She also told me I should swaddle (advice in the UK was at the time NOT to swaddle to prevent SIDS)
Also advice in UK given by MW was 'cold baby cries, hot babies die' for this reason DH refused to let her wear more than a legless onsie for naps in April.
He was brought up in Papua New Guinea though by 7th day Adventist parents. He was fed by a wet nurse (who also breast fed her pig...yes) Luckily I have girls or would be criticised for not circumsizing.
Danish friend criticised my parenting for giving DD a bath before bed (her children aged 4 and 7 have only 1 or 2 baths a week- apparently bad for skin)
Greek friend got angry that I lay my DD flat to sleep- said head should always be ABOVE the feet or else... Some doom and gloom. UK says no pillows for babies. Or in fact anything in the bed to prevent risk of SIDS.

my Y1 ds also wears tights - all my 3 boys have worn tights all the time when babies and toddlers and then when skiing, snow days etc. Bonkers not to. I was bought up in Europe where this is normal, though am English, thank god for H&M!

Such an interesting thread!

My DH is South African. I got the distinct impression that slings and carriers are not the done thing, by the white population that is. My MIL seemed genuinely mortified to be walking beside me when I had DS at 8 months in a carrier.

No concept of healthy baby snacks. Everything is sugar loaded.

The peanut abstinence has been debunked. I mentioned to my midwife that Indonesians eat so much peanut, that if this caused deadly nut allergies, 90% of Indonesian babies would die at weaning.

She said her dissertation was on this very subject and she cited countries with high peanut consumption (such as Indonesia) as evidence that peanuts during pregnany, breastfeedig or early infancy are NOT the cause of nut allergies.

In a way, that's a shame, because it means we still just don't know what causes it or how to prevent it.

No sleep routines in India either. "Play till you crash" seemed to be the motto.

On the other hand, getting them to sleep wasn't actually a problem-tiny babies were given THE most amazing massages ever. Some old toothless grandma would lay down an equally toothless baby on both her legs and give the little one a wonderful rub-down with warmed coconut oil and herbs. Followed by a warm shower. The baby would be so blissed out and start sleeping during the massage.

For a while I was walking around quite envious of babies who had spa treatment on tap.

Fascinating thread.

(Asian culture) I did not:

-Circumcise my son
-Shave my newborns' heads
-Give my babies honey as their first taste of anything.

The first probably caused my in-laws real distress but, to their credit, they never said a word to me about it and it has not soured our relationship.

The second I had to argue with my DH about. The words "over my dead body" and "cold day in hell" were mentioned.

The third, DH and I were united against.

On the other hand, I have enthusiastically converted various other people to the practice of putting tights on their baby boys. And, actually my Y1 DS still wears them at home. It's great that there's lots more choice of boys' tights over here now, although I have had some very cool pairs from Germany.

Indonesia (specifically Jakarta - village life will be different):

pierce their ears as babies, so you know it's a girl
eyeliner on babies for photos
slap on the eucalyptus oil to 'keep the baby warm'
carried everywhere in a sling (I heartily approve of this, though)
no sitting at the table for meals once walking. Toddlers are off playing and they return to the table for the next mouthful (administed by hand from mum's plate) whenever they feel like it.
I've seen 'babysitters' (actually teenagers employed as 'nannies') run around after kiddies in the playground, hovering near the child on the climbing frame, to pop in another chunk of banana, so as not to interrupt the child's playing
nursery being about 20 children and 20 nannies (I know of a nursery that tried to ban nannies accompanying the children, but parents objected - they needed both a nursery and 1:1 care).
leisure time is wandering around a shopping mall while your nanny schleps on behind you carrying your infant, the bags, bottles and all baby paraphernalia - if you have a meal in the food court or a restaurant, nanny waits outside.
Motorcycle safety is being held in mum's arms, who is riding side saddle at the back, or if a little older, sitting in front of dad at the front.
car seatbelts - optional
care seat - what's that then?
when a baby is born, about 50 friends and relatives pile into the room to congratulate the new mother, before she's even had a chance to pop in a maternity pad. Almost no time alone to bond with the baby (that's what all that extended family are here to do).
bath times are in a bucket (once they can support their heads). Soap 'em up and rinse 'em off, while they hang on the sides (very cute, actually)
in villages, children play freely with little supervision. Other children supervise your toddler/stop them straying into the road/poke stray dogs with sticks.

Fantastic thread! I've often wondered why my eastern European friend has her children's ears pierced - I'm sure her girls looked like girls anyway (and does it really matter- my DD was also being told she was a bonny boy) but some things are so deep rooted I suppose. I've never dared ask as I do think it's hideous but don't want to let her know that!

horsetowater I instinctively chewed my DCs food and reluctantly sucked the snot from their nose. So many instinctive, traditional practices are lost as newfangled technology takes over.

Footie Interesting point. A complete abstinence policy re peanuts has never made sense to me. I purposefully ate peanuts in pregnancy and when BF to provide some exposure.

WRT to Israeli children, I don't know about their first food but Bamba is a very popular snack and that's made from peanuts. I remember reading that peanut allergies are less common there.

This is a fascinating thread. I'm afraid I don't have any of my own to add but there is an interesting book on the subject called "How Eskimos Keep their Babies Warm".

I went over to Germany last month and because the kids were going to be in ski school, I bought special stuff so they would appear to be sufficiently well dressed, even though it was incredibly warm for the time of year and I knew we would all be roasting. I did not want to be judged on whatever the German version of Mumsnet is.

I am half German.

German children seem to wear lots of layers - vests, long johns, fleeces, thick socks, proper boots with fleece linings, hats, scarves, gloves, and so on. They will put this lot on even to pop to the shops.

English children wear coats very occasionally, clearly preferring to tough it out, even if it's -5C and snowing, unless their mothers are particularly keen on outer layers.

Consequently German parents think English parents send their children to school practically naked.

German children seem to immediately remove shoes the minute they see a carpet, and put on extremely expensive slippers with little zips, hand made out of organic felt.

English children will occasionally remember to put slippers on but they tend to be nasty nylon things with Angry Birds depicted all over them, and things like that. Often you can only buy slippers in the UK around Christmas time as they are traditionally associated with the holiday season, for some bizarre reason.

German children will enthusiastically eat a big bowl of salad every time they have a main meal. They are salad connoisseurs.

English children will look at salad mistrustfully as though it has been left there by aliens, and they will only eat it if they are bribed or threatened.

German children will fling themselves down mountains and into random bodies of water on the slightest pretext, from the age of about two. They can all swim and ski and generally comport themselves with serious coolness when out of doors.

English children cry at the merest sight of a bee, wasp or moth; express distress when invited into the outdoors, and require health and safety slips in order to walk 5 metres away from their parents.

I could go on.

Yep, I recognise the Kohl thing. My mum made some for DD- homemade stuff that had rose water and almond oil in it. Admittedly it cooled you down in a hot climate. And I have used it on DD as well, when she turned two.

No cribs, moses baskets or cots. Only baby hammocks made of the softest yet sturdiest muslin. Apparently good for a baby's developing spine. I hunted high and low for a baby hammock manufacturer in the UK and did find one. DD was a brilliant sleeper because of it.

Nappies are very much frowned upon. Disposables, I mean. Washable cloths are fine, but I still cannot understand the point of a "nappy" that was nothing more than a fig leaf really. Absolutely did NOT prevent accidents or hold anything in. Parents seem to change this cloth "nappy" every half hour.

Circus daredevil riders were not a patch on fathers zipping through traffic on motorbikes. With mum riding side-saddle on the back. With a three month old on her lap.

I am English and work with a Nigerian guy and we have a third colleague who is English and expecting his first baby. He was asking for tips. We both have three children of similar ages.

I mentioned that we found cranial osteopathy very useful for our first, who wouldn't lie on his back, after a difficult birth and got badly stuck and bashed around. So much so that with the second two we immediately took them to a cranial osteoptah as newborns as well to "optimize" their skulls and any misalignment caused by the birth. All have been good sleepers from early on and I was saying that I think the cranial osteopathy may have helped. New Father was asking ok great who do I need to see, ok a cranial osteopath with a specific extra qualification in treating newborns, right, got it.

My Nigerian colleague started laughing and saying, see, this illustrates the difference between the Western and Nigerian approach to getting newborns to sleep - you take them to extra qualified cranial osteopath, we just give them to the old lady in the village for half an hour to sort out their bones!

My older Irish relatives insist you should add bleach to the bath water to get rid of 'worms' in children. They think the reason DS is so thin is because he doesn't bathe in bleach and is therefore riddled with worms.

Not sure if that's an Irish thing though or just my mad family

I was in Spain with dd - I was weird because:

• not piercing her ears
• ignoring the very strict list of weaning guidelines specifying exactly what food could be given on what week post weaning (followed UK much simpler guidelines!)
• not wrapping her in umpteen jumpers
• no socks!
• carrying her around in a sling (but she'll be so hot!) erm, maybe it will cancel out the lack of jumpers (but she'll be so cold!)

Extended breastfeeding seemed pretty uncommon (b/f til 20 months), but I got loads of really positive comments on it from older women about how she would grow up much stronger and better as a result, never had any negative vibes no matter where I fed :)

According to my MIL from a Middle eastern-ish culture, I risked the life of my dcs by:

• going barefoot when pregnant in plus thirty degree heat because I would 'catch a cold in my ovaries and damage the baby'
• refusing to add a little salt to the baby's milk. 'It makes them thirsty so they drink more and get stronger.'
• refusing to dress my dcs in several wool layers when they are red and sweating from heat as they will obviously catch a cold from by sweating
• allowing my baby to lose a sock when travelling through an airport. The air-conditioning would obviously freeze his foot off.
• allowing my older children to play with water from a hosepipe again in mid thirties temps. Obviously once again they would catch a cold and die.

Other areas where the In laws all smiled and laughed at me behind my back about my strange foreign ways included my insisting on dcs wearing seatbelts, refusing to travel in a car with a drunk driver, having bed times, not spoonfeeding my dcs until the age of 5 (I've even seen parents coming into school at lunch times to spoon feed their 6 year olds) and my allowing my boys to run around pushing a dolls pram in case it made them gay.