Archaeologists are DNA testing some bones they've found to see if they might be the remains of Richard III. Are there any other members of the Royal Family....

Can someone tell me what happens to threads in Classics? Does the thread still have to end at 1000 posts and if so, what do we do then?

Sweet Cicily, lovely!

Wow history lesson or what!!

Ooh, princesses & queens.

York: Anne, Elizabeth, Margaret, Mary, Cicely, Bridget, Catherine, Isabel, Ursula.
Lancaster: Blanche, Philippa, Mary, Joanna, Marguerite, Anne.
14th C: Isabella, Philippa, Eleanor, Margaret, Joan, Mary

Just all the ones you'd expect really - I do like Cicely and Blanche. And Elizabeth Woodville's mother's name was Jacquetta, which is also nice.

oooooh, Henry Cavil

What about Alienor the Latin form of Eleanor, or Petronilla for her sister, or the fabulous Berengaria for the Lionheart's wife?

okay, a bit earlier, but Juliet Barker's 'Agincvourt is also a fantastic read ( and for anyone who is a Project maanger - the logistics were astounding )

I think Margaret wanted to believe and also wanted Henry off the throne or at the very least to harass him. Also, Henry V11's claim to the throne was so, erm, tenuous she probably felt an imposter had as much right to the throne as Henry Tudor....

I love CJ Sansom and Bernard Cornwell's books (Azincourt probably my favourite).

I have also read two or three by Posie Graeme Evans (?) which were very evocative of the time of Edward the Confessor (?) but would like to know the MN history panel's views on her writing? Pop history bonk buster or well researched?

One more thing... This would be better in 'baby names' but :) as all the mediaevalists are here... My name and my mother's name are both British queens/princesses of the 20th century. If I was to have a girl baby, I would like to carry on that trend. Suggest me some I might not have thought of, and the story. I like Charlotte but (a) she was basically German and (b) died in childbirth and (c) it's quite a popular name now. Also like Anne as she was almost (?) a queen in her own right, which my mother's namesake is and also was the first time round too. I am not adventurous enough to use Aethelburga or the like, and Eleanor is already used by a close friend, but can you give me some good Plantagenet princesses/queens to name my potential future possible DC2?

God! you have to be quick around here!
Anya Seton is a good intelligent read too by the way.

Hi Signy, I think I've heard this theory, is this the one about Edward having a lot of doctors in attendance around May/June 1483, hence it is thought he may have been ill and could have died of natural causes?

One thing I am really interested in is, whether Perkin Warbeck was Richard of York or not, is why Margaret of Burgundy backed him. To be a PITA to Henry is the obvious answer. But did she really believe it was him? Did she persuade herself, because she wanted it to be him? That must have been, at the very least, a weird and emotional time for her - all her brothers dead, her whole family defeated and chucked off the throne, her nephews disappeared, and then suddenly a young man turns up saying he's from a bit of that past she thought was lost...

It's a soft "G" (like jelly) blister, named for the Planta genista (common broom) sprig Geoffrey of Anjou habitually wore in his hat. Geoffrey was the father of Henry II (husband to the magnificent Eleanor of Aquitaine) and coincidentally, the Plantagenet's remained the England's royal house right up until the defeat of Richard III at Bosworth. in 1485

Planta Genista is the Latin name for broom.

Well the Tudors had Johnathan Rhys Meyers and Henry Cavill in it. That's enough for me!

Thank you for moving to Classics, MNHQ

Plan-tadgenetts, Blisterpack

I love Norah Lofts. She had a very gritty grasp of history. She grew up on a farm and she was more interested in how ordinary people made a living than in romanticising anything. The Old Vine trilogy is wonderful.

Also Norah Lofts "The Concubine" , another favourite fiction about Anne Boleyn.

I loved the Tudors even though it was full of nonsense. Pretty people having lots of sex in lovely costumes, what's not to like?

By the way, another thing people are sniffy about is Wikipedia and I cannot understand why. I have an undergrad degree in history and a masters in medieval history, and as far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with getting an outline grasp of a period or a person's life off Wikipedia. The main facts are too well known to be in dispute, it is highly unlikely that they will be definitively wrong.

You can't, obviously, write essays from it, because it's usually not detailed enough and it won't present the conflicting arguments that books will discuss in depth. But for an overview, to dip into a subject, fine. And often more than fine actually, I've seen plenty of highly authoritative academic books I'm familiar with used very effectively as sources on there (probably by people as obsessive as me).

Hi, this is Signy, Sieglinde's daughter.
I insist on a state funeral! Medieval liturgy. In Latin. With me invited, please! I maintain that it should be in Westminster Abbey. Or maybe St Georges Chapel, Windsor so he can be next to his brother?
Also isn't it just as likely that the little princes didn't die as it is that they died? Couldn't Richard have smuggled them out of the country before Bosworth? I think Perkin Warbeck WAS Richard, Duke of York and Edward V died earlier probably from a disease he may have had in the 1480s Yes?
And (not really on the same subject), no offense to anyone but the Catholic Church was up and running by at least 100 AD; therefore by 11th century it had been around for 900+ years.

Margaret George - The Autobiography of Henry V111 (with notes by his fool, Will Somers) is still my favourite work of fiction.

Actually, I think Jean Plaidy is OK. As you say, she's fairly factual.
I've just had a thought though, about the princes.
If Richard wanted shot of them, he could have had them smothered and passed off to the public as dying of some disease, BUT, given the ruthlessness of the power struggles of the day, wouldn't it have been a good plan, to have them killed, and then frame Buckingham for the murders? Kill three birds with one stone, and avoid all blame, whilst expressing profound grief for the dreadful loss of his beloved nephews?
He could have been united in grief with Elizabeth Woodville, and get her in hand...
It's Plan tadge en et. Named after the Planta Genista, that the first king, Henry II Wore in his hat.

Backing up a bit, but there's a nod to the 'Henry VIII was syphilitic' camp in that, as mentioned in an earlier post, Francis I of France is supposed to have had syphilis. Interestingly, Mary Boleyn was his mistress during her time at the French court and, had Francis been syphilitic at that time, could have contracted the disease from him. She then had an affair with Henry VIII upon her return to the english court and, theoretically, could have infected him.

It's a bit far fetched as there are a lot of 'what ifs'. There is no record that Mary Boleyn had or died from syphilis. She retired from court life and died in her mid forties, but the latter was not an unrealistic age for death of a female in the 16th century. Her absence from court could be attributed to her syphilis and an effort to conceal the symtoms, but it's a long, speculative stretch and is far more likely to be down to the fact that she made a poor second marriage (lesser status) and was banished from court. Once her sister and brother had been executed and her family name disgraced she was hardly likely to be welcomed back with open arms.

Can I ask a silly question please? How do you pronounce Plantagenet? Is it a soft G? And are they called that because it's their surname?

And yy to reading fiction alongside (though I find I somehow can't read historical fiction of periods I know well any more, I used to be much more into it as a teenager).

I do also think Josephine Tay's The Daughter of Time is a fantastic, if dated, little novel. Mum put on an audio book of it when I was about 8 or 9 and home ill from school, and I've never looked back.