Archaeologists are DNA testing some bones they've found to see if they might be the remains of Richard III. Are there any other members of the Royal Family....

That would be fantastic!

If it were Catholic, it'd be fascinating - would they dig out the old medieval guidelines for state funerals? I would absolutely love to see that.

Some babies with congenital syphilis must survive a fair time, since it's associated with learning disabilities and so they must live long enough for that to become apparent.

Though, if it were that, Elizabeth must have had it very mildly since she was hardly struggling to be clever!

She lived a pretty long time for someone with congenital syphilis, I think it usually results in infant death.

Don't know the Tudors at all, but Fanjo yes that sounds possible, maybe she was aware that something was wrong with the family's fertility, in a non-specific way (perhaps that Kell positive thing someone linked to) and never married because she didn't want to pass on whatever it was.

Arthur (Henry VIII's older brother) was supposed to have died from TB wasn't he. I think Catherine (of Aragon) caught it too but survived. Couldn't swear to that. I'd need to check it out.

Ewww!

Sorry, happy.

you're right LRD , syphilis can pass from father to child too.
There's a pleasant new thought to accompany my breakfast bagel (cream cheese and bacon if anyone's interested).

That's a point fanjo - or she might have been terrified of the idea of having a baby after seeing all of that (although I suppose you could argue that for most of the population!).

There must have been something wrong with Henry as none of his male children survived into adult hood, also his brother died very young. Could Elizabeth have thought there was something wrong with her as her brother had died and her sister had a phantom pregnancy and died.

Were we channeling Mad ?

x-post

We're just going to have to keep pressing refresh for 12 weeks!

Oh no, scratch that. The River Soar legend is about what supposedly happened to his tomb when the Priory was broken up at Dissolution.

The DNA tests will take 12 weeks!

Want to know NOW!

As far as I remember, Richard's body was thrown into the river Soar after the dissolution of the monasteries.
I really ought to get some work done but this thread is just so alluring.

Ooh, I'll look that up, thanks mad. I love the Pastons.

There's a lovely bit in one of the letters where the wife is writing to her husband and they're joking about how she's got such a 'shapely' figure now, she really needs a new dress (she's in her third trimester). It just feels very affectionate and homely.

(This is why I'd be a terrible historian ... I always go off into the anecdotes.)

I thought he was supposed to have been chucked into the River Soar actually. Is that not true, or was he retrieved from there for burial?

And if so, did they retrieve the right body?

Also, wasn't Richard's body supposed to have been mutilated after death. That could account to blows to the back of the head.

BTW, if anyone wants to read a great background colour book about the Wars of the Roses, written by an academic historian, I can totally recommend Helen Castor's Blood and Roses, which is based on the Paston letters and brings in a lot of the wider political history too.

There used to be a theory (may still be) that Henry had syphilis. Does it pass from father to child? I think so.

Loving Richard III and the bacon butty.

Just a quicky - surely, given the determination to slander Anne Boleyn at the time of her execution, they would have shouted it from the rooftops if she had had syphilis?
But then again, that would intimate that Henry must have it and they wouldn't want that, would they.

Ah, toddler music, I remember that

Sorry, this is the link for that long quote.

kerrygrey

Somebody way upthread mentioned the two skeletons found near Edward IV's tomb at Windsor. This is what Wiki says:

In 1789, workmen carrying out repairs in St. George's Chapel, Windsor, rediscovered and accidentally broke into the vault of Edward IV and Queen Elizabeth Woodville, discovering in the process what appeared to be a small adjoining vault. This vault was found to contain the coffins of two mysterious, unidentified children. However, no inspection or examination was carried out and the tomb was resealed. The tomb was inscribed with the names of two of Edward IV's children: George, 1st Duke of Bedford who had died at the age of 2, and Mary of York who had died at the age of 14; both had predeceased the King.[16] During the excavation for the royal tomb house for King George III under the Wolsey tomb-house in 1810-1813 two lead coffins clearly labelled as George Plantagenet and Mary Plantagenet were discovered and moved into the adjoining vault of Edward IV's but at the time no effort was made to identify the two lead coffins already in the vault.[17]

It goes on to say this area was being worked on again in the late 1990s and a request was put in to open the vault and examine the two unknown occupants, but the royal household turned it down. I wonder if (assuming the Leicester skeleton is Richard) another request will be made again now?

I can see why this kind of thing is only done very occasionally though, the royal household has a duty of care and it's not massively respectful is it, digging up skellies to test every time we have a scientific advance! Would be a very interesting one though.

Oh ... is it possible to say 'enjoy' toddlers' music? If so, enjoy. Or at least, I hope it's tolerable and the toddler(s) in question have a ball.

Or Richard was such a hero that he was fighting without armour and with his breakfast butty in one hand?