Ways of Dying in 1665

had a long discussion with dh about this thread. he is an absolut history geek and can remember all those dates that keep falling out of my head
the dark ages after the fall of the roman empire must have been really tough for all the knowledge being lost/not passed on (no time?) to future generations.
the greeks and romans with their life-like statues and grand buildings. then nothing (survived) for centuries, just look at the childlike illustrations of early books.

Ariel, yes one historical novelist, I think it's Norah Lofts, has her borrowing his pocket knife and cutting her heel to get some blood.

NanBullen - that's an interesting thought re the skulls.
I probably wouldn't be so bothered about Henry and Elizabeth because I think we have a fair idea what they looked like, but the portraits of Anne Boleyn are more stylised/not so good, and based on them I find it hard to picture her as a real person so I would love them to do her.

The vast majority of women don't bleed - excellent article about the vaginal corona formerly known as the hymen but I suppose at the time the belief that they did was widespread?

Its less about him being a catch and more a case of self preservation. After Arthur died, Henry VII refused to return Katherine to Spain, refused to give back her dowry and allowed her to live in poverty. Its more likely she married Henry to improve her lot than for any other reason. (although he was probably a slightly better choice than his father, who was interested in marrying her before he died!

Ah, there were ways and means of faking blood on sheets.

Wouldn't they have expected blood on the sheets though if they had? Although from the sound of it, at that time Henry was more of a catch than Arthur, so I can't really blame her!

Just to be totally morbid, apparently Catherine Parr's coffin was opened in the 1800's (i think) and she was really well preserved. Not sure how?

Anyway, i know it'll never happen but i'd love for henry 8th, anne boleyn's and elizabeth 1st coffins to be opened just to have a look! i would love their skulls to be used to make up an image of them. you know, like on history cold case.

Love this thread!

and yes Henry 8th was a twat

Nobody knows if Arthur and Katherine consummated their marriage. She swore they didn't because it was vital to the validity of her marriage to H8 that she married him a virgin.
Arthur told his menservants the morning after "last night I was in Spain", which was assumed to mean that they did the deed.
The curse on H8 was spoken by a nun caught up in the disollution. Basically if he married Anne Boleyn, dogs would lick his blood.

I have heard tell it's the worst pain ever. Especially when you have to pass it.

Hope he's ok Mirage.

Honey IS an antiseptic. And apparently it is so nutrient rich you could live solely on it and water. The tragedy is we are losing our honey bees at a catastrophic rate :(

You will be glad to know that this thread has had a practical application.DH was very poorly last night,with severe pains in his lower abdomen and back.In the early hours I managed to persuade him to go to A&E as I thought it was kidney stones.Well I was right and it was.[smug face] I helpfully reminded him that I had also diagnosed his appendicitis a few years back,when our GP said it was constipation.

I then entertained him whilst waiting,by telling him about Pepys and how he had his stone removed with no anaesthetic.He said that the pain was so bad that he could see why an op would be preferable.I'm sure he is very grateful to us all for helping pass the time.

Honey was used as an antiseptic in the middle ages and still is in the Middle East. Great healing properties.

Ooh, I'm like Gwyneth

When did we get moved to Classics?

Gwyneth

And by Demi Moore to help her look young and beautiful.
Talking of which, when we were discussing cupping earlier, I didn't get a chance to mention there was a craze for that among Hollywood slebs - there were photos of Gwyneth Paltrow with photos of marks where she'd been cupped.

Oh sorry, yes. I was muddled! They are still used though, because they produce an anticoagulant.

just googled leeches and maggots, it is all very interesting! Honey is making a comeback too apparently.

And maggots too. They are still used to remove infected tissue.

Isn't it maggots that are being used to remove necrotic tissue, and the leeches are to stop blood clotting?

Leeches are a good idea, you do still find them used very occasionally to remove necrotic tissue.

Eugenics, medically speaking, is sensible, no different to selective breeding. Obviously where it falls apart is on moral grounds. But in theory it wasn't that bad an idea.

Happens a lot in Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, Ethiopia and the Horn of Africa

wrt the church and science -- interesting paper, long and starts slowly but maybe worth a read. Progress has been bumpy but to say the Church has operated through history like the proverbial wet blanket is really not a hypothesis that stands up to examination.

I think we have seen even in this thread how hard it is for even those without some sort of basic religious belief at stake to accept new ideas and understand, for instance, the necessity of washing hands between patients (the experience of Semmelweis). It's not as a result of any fundamental characteristic of the church as an institution that certain lines of scientific inquiry met resistance. There are dumb people out there in all walks of life, and even the world of medical science has gone up more than a few blind alleys (lobotomies, eugenics, leeches).

Yes, she was still about years later wasn't she? I think she organised/supervised quite a lot of the entertainment and banquets when Henry married Catherine of Aragon and was regent at that time wasn't she?

She was a very interesting woman, Margaret Beaufort. Even before Philippa Gregory got hold of her.