Ways of Dying in 1665

hackmum - that is interesting! But I also though the whole purplish wee thing was pretty cut and dried? And porphyria does induce mental disturbances, of course.

Beta - I agree with you. It is possible your vicar is being cautious though. Not the same I know, but there was a terrific fuss a while back when Catholic priests were saying prayers for the souls of aborted foetuses outside an abortion clinic near where my mate lives in the US. The vicar might worry that if he gave a C of E blessing, maybe people would think it was presumptuous?

Not sure really, just thinking.

Speaking of Black Death, some libraries insist you can only look at certain manuscripts under glass - would it really be an issue or are they just being paranoid? I've never had this problem myself, just heard of it so I hope I'm remembering rightly it was Black Death they were worried about.

Just going back a little to the plants thing, I always found the 'sympathetic' treatment really interesting. Like lungwort being used for chest complaints, because it looks a bit like lungs or belladonna protecting against scarlet fever because it gives the same rash.

Cupping doesn't hurt (well I had it done without the cut obviously), but it feels very strange! I had it done when we were learning about the Romans, but it's probably very similar. They put a lit little bit of match into the bowl and then put it against my arm. The match went out and the vacuum keeps the bowl on the skin.

Bugger. WW1, obv, and effect

Thanks, Ariel! And :( for the serfs.
The 1918 flu pandemic, coupled with WW2 (the flu killed more than the war) had a similar effect on the British class system, for similar reasons. Not enough of an affect, though.

@TheScarlettPimpernel: "Of course we now know that George 3 probably had porphyria (because his urine was blue), and what was extraordinary was that the doctors weren't interested when his footmen pointed this out."

Well, it's funny - there was a paper a couple of years ago insisting that he didn't have porphyria, he was actually bipolar. I was a bit surprised at this because I thought the evidence for porphyria was pretty overwhelming (I saw a tv programme about it that showed how it ran through the generations).

Someone mentioned Jill Paton Walsh's book about Eyam - there's also a great novel by Geraldine Brooks called (iirc) Year of Wonders. It's loosely based on Eyam, so there's lots of embroidery of the bare facts, but it's a terrific read.

Yes it was, but the Black Death was the name given to the epidemic which swept across Europe in the mid 14th Century and killed a third or even a half of its population. It was a massive catalyst for social change e.g. it ultimately improved the lot of the serfs because there were fewer of them to e expoited.

Black Death was bubonic plague, wasn't it?

Jericho/Tunip/Thumbwitch - yes I think it may well be right abut the grave of unbaptised child. It may also be the parents were too poor? The gravestone was very old and had fallen over and I tried to stand it up one day to 'put things right' but I just couldn't lift it on my own.

I mentioned it to the vicar a few times but he didn't seem interested. I sort of felt it should have at least had a blessing. It was quite poigniant and sad so obviously an innocent child buried in a lonely grave. Religion!!!

I've remembered that a friend of mine had a stillbirth in the late 80s that was buried by the hospital, presumably in a communal grave.

Children of Winter is a wonderful title - I'm putting it on my Amazon list, thanks!

Children of Winter is about the Black Death - even more devastating than the 1665 plague.

Julia how awful.

My dad told me the other day that his mum had a stillborn daughter before she had him. She was left alone in labour - in hospital - and obviously my granddad wasn't allowed in the room. By the time the doctor went in she'd had the baby and it was dead. Just awful. Apparently my granddad insisted to my dad he had to be present at his children's births after that.

Sorry, not quite on topic but I was just thinking how sad it is.

missmiss, did you read the first review of that book on Amazon: "This is by far the best book in the world!" That's a ringing endorsement if ever I saw one!

My friend was complaining about mortality stats being skewed by high infant mortality. There are ways of presenting the stats which takes thus into account and gives more accurate figures. She's doing her history PhD on cholera. It's fascinating, she's so lucky.

There's another great children's book about the plague: Children of Winter.

Jericho - or it could just be an enormous ego on the part of the father, like George Foreman who named ALL his sons George (5 of them, I believe!)

My mother wants to donate her body to Gunther von Hagens to be plastinated, after we went to Bodyworlds and she absolutely loved it. There would be a certain logic - she used to teach biology and thus could continue to do so after her death. Me and my dad said 'Over my dead body...' though.

Niice. Freeze dried and granulated sounds quite practical TBH.

The names thing confuses me hugely - there's a family I was looking at where both brothers and the father were John. I always wonder if little brother was named when big brother was very sick and not thought likely to survive, or if they just didn't think of names the way we do?

Thumbwitch yes, I think so. I've seen horrible things of still born babies buried on waste ground, never having proper graves etc. Quite recent, the mothers arestill alive

Here we are: I present Dr Price of Llantrisant.

God, even if Scarlett was quoting from DB sketch, who actually cares?

This is a great thread and still needs to be moved out of chat, by the way. :)

My MIL lost her firstborn - still birth - her next boy was given the exact same name. Must have given him a bit of a shiver when he saw the grave, no?

Ariel Names - sick, but funny Cremation man -saw a tv prog about him - interesting. apparently we're gonna be freeze dried and granulated in future
I'm getting donated

MOreBeta - isn't it unchristened children who get buried outside of graveyards? could be wrong though.