All these people who cry "burglary!'.

But, MarySue, half the point is that (so far as available statistics show) false claims of burglary are far more common than false claims of rape.

And yet talk of "crying burglary" in the manner of this thread sounds faintly ludicrous while talk of "crying rape" in all the analogous ways is part of the accepted vernacular.

And we aren't having this discussion because of the DSK case. We are having this discussion because of this case and this case and this case and this case and these findings and this delightful chap and the line that rape defendants take in court and case after case after case.

Ok, 'nearly all rape claims, there is'. Picky. You agree there are problems with it as a metaphor? Please refer to my point that using it as a metaphor actually gives rape claim sceptics a good argument. People do make false burglary claims, and people do blame the victim if they leave their door wide open.

I've heard "But he can't help it. He's just a man". What's that all about anyway just a man? Are we meant to believe they are some sort of inferior species with no control over their penis? that's pretty insulting, really.

absolute nonsense to say there is a suspect in all rape claims. Gail Sherwood didn't know who had attacked her; she knew it was the man who had been stalking her but not who it was.

The metaphor also fails because in the vast majority of burglaries there is no suspect, so no trial, and in all rape claims there is. And I would agree that people like Colin Stagg down to Mr Suspected Burglar should not be named until they are convicted. Didn't we just see how unfair this was with that guy who was suspected of killing Jo Yates?

Also, all my other points which you have not addressed.

only middle class houses that have never been lived in can be classed as having been properly burgled

And nobody ever says that someone who's up on a charge of burglary should have his/her identity concealed because it would be so awful if the accusation should turn out to be false, do they? because so very many people go around making false accusations of burglary?

That's the nub, to me. That's why the metaphor works.

Now either get it, or go away!

OH GOD!

My head hurts.

Elephants, I'd believe my friend about either. The police and the courts will be suspicious of any burglary case where the claimant stands to benefit. Lets face it, we are having this discussion because of the DSK case, where the problem is indeed with believing the claimant because the evidence seems to be she was very interested in how much she might benefit. That doesn't always happen, as the roughly 50% (correct? just read it today) conviction rate shows.

Not sure if this is meant to be a funny thread, and seriously hoping im missing the actual joke.

My house was burgled 2 yrs ago, in the middle of the night,whilst in bed with my children. I had heard sounds comming from our front door but thought i was dreaming, until the noise got more persistent and i sat up, i went downstairs in time to see our 5 lock security front door fly open and two hooded men enter, when i screamed my front door keys were grabbed and they ran out.

To cut a long story short, the police explained they were after my car and so needed to get the keys obviously. Apparently a racket was operating all over london.

For a yr after this incident i have not been able to sleep through the night as i imagine i heard a noise and jump out of bed to go and check, sometimes up to 3 times in the night.

OP et all im really not sure why you would find this funny.

@Toby. But the metaphor is being used here to ridicule the idea that people make false claims of rape. I suppose I agree it nearly works a metaphor if you want to prove that there are false rape claims, but I am criticising the use of the metaphor as being counter-productive to the intent of the posters. I also think it is not an ideal metaphor because false rape accusers are probably much rarer than false insurance claimants, the 'stakes are much lower in insurance fraud/false burglary claims, and there will be different reasons why some might make false claims. If anything the metaphor gives another argument to those who would disbelieve rape accusers.

In fact people lie more often in order to claim on their insurance than they lie about rape. And yet somehow when someone says they have been burgled the default reaction is sympathy.

So I don't get your post then. People make false claims of rape, people make false claims of burglary. Perfect metaphor, if you ask me.

"To be fair, MarySue, sometimes people DO make false claims of rape, too."

That's my point, or one of them Toby.

Oh the crossed out 'on a par with ' was going to have added 'worse than people who say' but I realised I meant the opposite - ie it's worse to say someone deserves to get raped than get burgled. Sorry.

To be fair, MarySue, sometimes people DO make false claims of rape, too.

I get the point and humour behind this thread, but I'm not sure it works as a metaphor, and if it does, it actually damages what you are saying.

1. People DO make false claims of burglary. If they have something to gain like claiming on the insurance they might. And if you can't prove you took adequate precautions you don't get a payout. If they have broken or lost something, they might prefer to pretend it was stolen.Claimants will not automatically be believed by the insurance company. If a claimant is caught lying, they may be prosecuted. And there are other reasons why someone might wish to blame a particular person for a crime that don't work in the burglary metaphor.

1. I was burgled once, and it WAS because I'd left the front door wide open. Did I think I was 'asking for it?' Yes, in way. We may all wish we lived in a world where there was no need for lockable doors, but in reality we all take necessary precautions and do blame the victim say people are partly responsible for their own safety if they leave their doors open, wave around flashy electronic goods in the wrong part of town, or say get really drunk and go back to the house of some weird guys they've only just met. If you don't agree, tell your daughter to she needn't be careful, if she gets raped its society's fault. Although it's fair to say if someone said 'if you are wealthy you deserve to get robbed' they are on a par with saying 'if you wear a short skirt', etc. But I don't hear many people say that these days, and I've never heard anyone say 'men are animals they can't help but rape the poor things.'

1. Oh that's it I think.

WingedThingy I have also heard of a man who had a beautiful home, recently refurbished and with all mod cons who was accused of burgling a run-down wreck of a property. It beggars belief.

Maybe she was jealous of his lovely house and so made up the fact that he robbed hers

And also he already had a lovely house at home so why would he need to rob hers?

Sorry, "robbed" her.

Oh I know her, Sybil, and the person who had robbed her was someone she had once spoken to for two minutes whilst serving him in WH Smith, so it was obviously all a lie.

My friend who I have actually always hated said she was burgled but a few nights later she was out enjoying herself in the pub, so it can't be true.