Sixth form entrance query

There is no point really, except that it’s good practice to apply for something and makes students value it a little more.

My DCs sixth form was like this, you needed x points overall plus specific grades on top, tough if you miss out but it was all published and agreed by lea. It served two council areas as a lead sixth form college, one of the best in the midlands at least and typically got 10+ into Oxbridge. We knew she needed 100 points (a was 10 then) and she got 136 so all good

My DD wasn’t allowed to drop her language even though it was blindingly obvious from mid year 10 she was never going to do well in it. She wished she’d chosen another one. No interest in doing after yr11. She decided to just go for a 4 in it and focus on the subjects she had interest in. Dito Eng lit.,We had no idea the impact that could have. No credit for doing 10.
the 6th forms here need 6 good gcse at 6 and above mostly. But then those also wanting a GPA is where you come a cropper.

No, you are missing the op's point. Her DC has enough to get into further education and a job. She started the thread because she doesn't have enough to get into one particularly selective sixth form.

@umbrellar you’re missing my point. I think people should be less concerned about getting into the most selective sixth forms and more concerned with the knowledge and skills and experiences their children are getting. These teens need to be able to get into further education / jobs. Nowhere has @ifonlytheydlisten said they were aiming for selective 6th forms; just that her DC would have faired better doing fewer. I’m struggling how you can disagree with this for her child. Yes, yours and others are different. It’s not only about selective 6th forms; bog standard ones are seriously oversubscribed. I don’t believe that if your child was looking at getting 11 GCSE’s at grade 4/5 you would not have suggested a decrease?

Schools tend to have a minimum of 8 at GCSE because that is the minimum needed for the Government performance measures - Progress 8 and Attainment 8.

But it doesn't follow that doing 8 rather than 9 or 10 will give better grades, because students don't always know where their interests and talents lie when they choose their options. Having more options gives them the opportunity to explore and do well at more subjects.

My eldest's final option (the one he would have dropped if he had fewer options) was Food & Nutrition, but it was a brilliant experience, giving him skills for life.

I think people should be less concerned about getting into the most selective sixth forms and more concerned with the knowledge and skills and experiences their children are getting.

@umbrellar I have to agree with you that education is way too exam focussed and there in lies the rub. You’re thinking of your (likely very capable) DCs though and not those who struggle somewhat with education and where 11 would be crazy overwhelming. I don’t know of any 6th forms that require even 10 GCSEs let alone 11. All the ones that my 3 DCs looked at over the last 6 years (including selective) wanted 7, sometimes 8. Albeit a couple wanted 7 grade 7’s then for some subjects grade 8’s. But no one asked for more than 8 GCSEs. So although you may think that’s too few, 6 forms don’t seem to agree. If a parent has a struggling DC (like ‘only’s’) then doing 11 is setting them up to fail and absolutely limits their options if they end up with 11 grade 4/5’s as opposed to 8 grade 6’s or whatever. no clue how many GCSE’s OPs DD did but you do need to think about a child’s next stage and what’s right for that child.

"Doing 8 or 9 gives plenty of a rounded education"

I don't agree. I think our young people specialise too early and it sometimes narrows their opportunities. My DC's did 11 overall and I can't think of any they would have willingly dropped - they would probably have liked to have had the opportunity to learn about some of the options they didn't choose too.

It's the exam focus that creates the friction, not the learning.

@ifonlytheydlisten is right though. Two of my DDs did 9 instead of 11 GCSEs and got amazing grades. If only’s DD had done say 8 instead of 10 then it’s highly likely the overall grades would be better, thus securing her favoured 6th form. No one needs 10/11 GCSEs Doing 8 or 9 gives plenty of a rounded education.

@Radicalcat have you got anywhere talking to the school? Are other options available?

That's a bit like saying she should win a marathon because she's an extremely fast sprinter.

Academically selective sixth forms aren't only selecting for cleverness, they're effectively selecting for resilience and work ethic and focus and concentration and whatever else it takes to do well at A Levels. And yes, that does mean that young people whose achievement at GCSE is impacted by adhd or illness or poor teaching or anything else are less likely to be selected.

@umbrellar agree but with 27 exams and adhd something had to give. She’s extremely clever. She’d have smashed 7/8/9s if only did 7 or 8

No, she wouldn't have been better doing this because she would have had a much narrower education. GCSEs are not just about grades - they actually educate young people too.

State school sixth forms aren't allowed to interview candidates - only to have a guidance meeting.

They are also not allowed to refuse late applications.

They have to apply their policy which, in this case, presumably says that applicants are ranked by grade.

What are your grounds for appeal?

My DD got ten GCSEs but a Lower GPA so doors slammed on her. She’d have been better only doing 6 GCSE & getting better grades. Madness

I didn't think they could withdraw a conditional offer if you have met all the conditions of the offer. The interview isn't allowed to be used to make an offer decision though. Our big local sixth form does reopen applications after results even for those who applied but didn't get an offer originally. They only allocate places after those with offers have confirmed or declined places.

From the admissions policy. "At Enrolment in August, and for Post-results applications (both of which open on GCSE Results Day), students use their actual GCSE grades.
Qualified applicants
Applicants holding offers with the College will have their places confirmed at Enrolment, in August, providing they meet the Entry Criteria in section 10 following receipt of their GCSE examination results."

Hope it works out. Has she a place elsewhere?

So she got the grades needed to do her specific courses but didn’t get the points needed overall? That’s really hard. Is she close to the points? It’s definitely worth a call if she met the grades required for each course and was only a few points away overall.

Dd is in GCSE year and ive been a bit baffled by ALevel 6th form processes. It seems to me that every single person that applies gets offered a provisional place. I think then the places get allocated by GCSE results by subject. Some subjects are oversubscribed and very competitive and others aren't as popular so you can get a place with lower grades. I dont think it does anyone any favours offering ALevel places to students with lower GCSE grades as they are so much harder. Im so sorry that your dd got the grades they asked for and didn't get a place, that sounds really harsh and must have been so disappointing for her. What subjects does she want to do and what were her grades? Have you contacted other 6th form colleges?

So you mean she met the grades for her chosen course/s but not overall for entry? Presumably you were aware of that requirement for her provisional place to be confirmed. They might take her if they still have space next week and he results were close.

Is admissions something like this?:

• priority to those already at the school and they must get minimum of 56 points from best 8 and meet subject requirements
• remaining spaces will be given out as follows: must get minimum 56 points from best 8 and meet subject requirements; if over subscribed priority will be given to those with highest best 8 score; if still over subscribed priority to those who applied on time

Are you saying she met the terms of a provisional offer and then the place was withdrawn? This feels very unusual. What reasoning did the school give?

Interviewing for state 6th forms isn't usually an academic test, it is to check their aims and expected results align with the subjects they are choosing.

I would have assumed that applications on the day would be 'behind' on time applications for those who met the required standard (that's how it would work for the large 6th form colleges around here I believe), but maybe for small 6th forms they are allowed to do this.

What does their admissions policy say?
Is it a 6th form in a school or a standalone college? I believe rules are different.