Advice on A level choices. How are children supposed to know at 15 what career?

He wouldn’t. Only one uni ask for maths for architecture, think it was Bath.

Dd did biology, product design and geography A levels and is studying architecture at one of the top rated courses. She even had an interview for Cambridge.

However the job market in architecture is horrendous. Out of her cohort when she finished her undergraduate degree she was the only one out of 80 to get a job. She started looking for work in May and from May to Oct there were less than 10 jobs advertised nationwide. Maybe less than 5 actually. And yes she did also send her portfolio to random companies. Most of her ex cohort are working in warehouses.

also keep in mind it’s 7 years of training, 5 years of university fees. Expect 60 hour weeks in uni. At DD’s uni they have 24 hr access to studios and will be there working till 4am, pull out their sleeping bags get a few hours sleep ready for presenting at 9am. It’s not for the faint hearted and the drop out rate is high.

@Passingthrough123 Do you think buildings are designed on data? What about structural engineering? Or refurbishing buildings into alternative uses? All data?

I agree it's not the best option, but the more firms rely on AI, the more data it will scrape and the better it's going to get.

@Passingthrough123 I will leave it to you to guess. What I will say though, is that if we deskill ourselves we will have no idea if the concrete pouring is accurate! Give up with skills needed for design, and it’s chaos. It’s already causing issues on big projects. Computer spews out rubbish as rubbish entered! Expensive redesigns. The way forward is not losing skills human beings have. AI might be available but it doesn’t make it the best option. But yes, trades will be required.

Can't tell if you're being sarky or not, but there's truth in what you're saying. Hands-on skilled workers are likely to have a far more secure future than white collar professionals.

He could always be a builder and build the rubbish produced by AI. I guess AI won’t be doing the concrete pouring?

Haven't RTFT so apologies if this has been raised and addressed, but even this early on I would steer my DC away from any profession that's likely to be cannibalised by AI. We're already experiencing a white collar employment downturn in London and it's likely to get worse in the coming years. So architecture would be off the list.

If he is struggling with maths, that would not be a good choice. He will need A,A,B for a Russell Gp uni (or higher), so go for his strengths with a range of skills, ie one arty subject, one essay based subject, one analytical/statistical subject.

Many architects do have a maths aptitude though. Certainly Sheffield is excellent and a BEng is obviously going to have more maths in it.

I would always try to look at employment rates and, after the first degree, this is difficult to know because of the further study and work that’s needed. Students can change university for further study too making employability difficult to ascertain. The main goal is to be employable. It’s certainly interesting to see the various requirements of courses and it wasn’t that long ago that Bath required A level art.

With most degrees, I think it’s best to look at the higher ranking courses to gauge requirements and what subjects put dc in the best position to engage with the course. Sheffield includes technology and design and certainly wants evidence of artistic ability and a portfolio. So I would always read the entry requirements and decide what subjects dc will do well in and then what courses meet that. However if they say nothing about A levels, I’d try and get info from them about succesful % with maths, art, technology etc. What is the profile of dc on the course? Do they, in effect, filter out applicants without, say, maths or technology? From what I can see, if dc is not loving art, Sheffield might not be the course that suits. If they don’t love maths, then swerve Bath.

Architects rarely do complex structural design. They have the ideas and trivial engineers make it work but architects must have some idea about structures and that’s maths. Or it’s a concept that cannot be built. Of course most architects don’t work on anything very exciting!

BA/BSc and BEng architecture courses are likely to have slightly different focuses and different entry requirements. However, if accredited they all offer the possibility of progression to being fully qualified. I wouldn't dismiss BA courses like Sheffield. It is a highly rated course & department (if you look at the league tables - I know they arent everything). The course is accredited. It is also a strong university overall. Although I am sure it is welcomed, you dont need maths a level to be offered a place. I am sure many students have it, but others wont. Bath is a great course as well, but it isnt the only good option. Progression in architecture requires work experience and additional study. Lots wont make it to be fully qualified, but some will. Students need to think about their aptitudes and interests and choose what is right for them.
Nobody on this thread is suggesting that maths isnt a great option at a level if you have an aptitude and interest. However, it is important to recognise that there are courses in many areas without it. It is best to research the courses (including specific entry criteria and graduate progression) directly.

@clary Bath and BSc ones are superior. We know loads of architects and one or two eminent ones! BA is more conceptual. Lots of architects don’t get work and it’s a job very dependent on the economy. The BSc tends to be what practicing architects like but of course I cannot speak for everyone. When you think about it, architecture really is art, science and technology as Bath says. It’s impossible to design anything successfully without these three. There’s a reason why Bath is sought after!

I am sure there is a difference between schools, tho York and Newcastle both tick the RG box :D. Tbf the Bath course (not surprisingly, given it’s Bath) is a BSc not a BA. All the courses I looked at were BA. I have no knowledge as to whether one or the other is better in the jobs market but I guess a BA leans less towards the science aspect. I can’t see where Sheffield mentions technology and science in its BA course details, certainly not in the entry requirements.

Definitely do not do two 2 subjects with portfolios as they are a lot of course work so art or product design not both and I’d consider economics or English as the third based on your post

To be fair, Sheffield mentions technology and science. It’s much better to apply with maths or technology if you can. It’s not a humanities subject. Bath says it’s science, art and technology, so they give a very clear steer on subjects. At Bath (very competitive to get in) they want maths or physics and strongly prefer an art or design subject. They say the strongest applicants have maths and physics. So I would expect Sheffield to be similar in what they expect from the strongest candidates because they are probably also competitive. @clary
There is a big difference between architecture schools!

Bath also look at GCSEs and the PS. They are clearly interested in subjects studied and say so. If dc take maths and physics, Engimeering is possible too.

Agree with @Owlbookend re architecture @user1460471313 – I just researched a few unis (Newcastle, York, Oxford Brookes) for architecture and while some requested a portfolio, none of those I looked at required any specific A level subjects. (also not my area of expertise so I too may be missing something).

The Leeds course also is a BEng/MEng hence maths. All the ones I looked at were BA.

They mainly request a portfolio so art A level (or product design, 3d design etc.) seems likely helpful.

Not my specialist area as I said. I just read the webpages. Maybe I am.missing something.
Liverpool
https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/courses/architecture-ba-hons#entry-requirements
Sheffield
https://sheffield.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/2026/architecture-ba
Leeds
https://courses.leeds.ac.uk/g800/architecture-meng-beng#entry

Not claiming any expertise. Just read published requirements. I may have missed something. It was just a quick glance & I make mistakes. However, my quick read suggests of these 3 (tiny sample) only Leeds requires maths.

@OwlbookendI’m not sure where you’re getting that information from but I work closely with sixth formers and the requirements for architecture are Math or Physics with Art or DT.
OP you are over thinking this. Just let DS pick what he enjoys and will do best at. The vast majority of careers have a fairly flexible entry criteria. The most important thing is that your DS enjoys what he’s studying. I agree that Maths is a bad idea if doing the GCSE hasn’t come easily to him. The A Level is a huge step up.

I also just took a quick look at architecture (because I know nothing about it & I think the OP's child is interested in creative options). A very brief scan shows some courses may require maths, but others don't.
Leeds = maths required
Liverpool = no subject requirements
Sheffield = maximum of two arts a levels, but no other subject restrictions.
BTECs + an A level accepted by Liverpool and Sheffield. They also accept some specific T levels.

If @Spamfrit 's DS is interested in creative courses like architecture & product design there are options thst dont need maths. However, it is worth looking at a range of possibilities.

I think that A level maths is a great choice for those with an aptitude and interest. For some pathways, it is a requirement. Students interested in these options may therefore choose it knowing that it is going to be challenging.
However, im not sure what is meant by 'there is no point in STEM without maths'. If you are including science degrees within STEM, there are plenty of science degrees that you can do without maths A level. Below are example requirements for Chemistry at Birmingham. For this course, AAB from say chemistry, biology and say psychology is likely to be okay. ABC from Chem, Bio and Maths is likely not. Students need to research subject and grade requirements from possible courses and think about what they are likely to achieve at A level and what their course aspirations are.

There are courses where maths is required (including most engineering courses). If a student is keen on engineering, then it is possible with maths at say a C, but it is likely to be a less selective course. It is important to be realistic about likely pathways and research what would and would not be possible.
Science courses can be options without maths. I dont doubt it would be good preparation, but many students are accepted and cope on these science courses without it. The important thing is to research and make an informed choice. Every uni will have their published requirements on their websites.

Required subjects and grades:
AAA -* *A-level Chemistry and no supporting subjects.
AAB - A-level Chemistry and a supporting subject from Mathematics, Further Mathematics, Physics, Biology or Computing (not ICT).
Minimum Maths requirement GCSE grade 6.
We accept resits for both A-levels and GCSEs.
General Studies, Critical Thinking and Use of Maths are not accepted.

@clary Well no, not needed. However when working there are clear advantages. My DD certainly didn’t like maths enough to do it and stuck to her strengths. The dc here should do similar but dc without a string of 8/9 grades have to choose something and no point in stem without maths really. I was assuming he liked it!

I agree that maths is good for a lot of degrees. DS2 took A level maths and would agree it was helpful at the start of his biological sciences degree.

But @Spamfrit suggests that her DS is looking at a possible grade 8 on his best day with intervention helping him to that grade. That doesn't sound ideal for maths A level, is what some of us are saying. My DS got an easy 8 at GCSE and found A level the biggest challenge of his choices. He got a hard-won B FWIW.

But I wouldn't say maths was good "for any degree". It is absolutely not needed at A level for a degree in Eng lit or history or MFL or politics or art. If he is likley to struggle to get a B at A level, but will find it easier to get A or Astar in business (or DT or history or sociology) then they are better choices IMHO unless he loves maths so much.

I'm not against maths A level at all btw. I almost took it (and often wish I had) and I am an MFL specialist!

if he is clever enough to do maths (eg will get an 8 at gcse he shills do that). Wouldn’t do Art and product design will limit choices. Economics better thought off but harder. If he is clever I’d suggest maths English and economics. Or product design maths and English?

My son is at a good uni with one of his degrees being business so I wouldn’t worry too much about it - universities are so desperate for students that they are less picky on what subjects potential intakes have got than they used to be and it’s the overall UCAS points that count. What I would say though (and it was advice my son ignored) if he can do maths it keeps loads of options open re engineering/science etc so I would encourage that alongside two others he enjoys doing.