How limiting is it to do Maths, Further Maths and Physics only for A levels?

@Mumofteenandtween if she’s y10, there are probably some sixth form college open days this summer - I’ve got a y10 and we went to one last week, and there’s another in a couple of weeks time. They all have them in the autumn too but there might be a good chance to get in a bit earlier than that to start asking questions and thinking about it - they’re often making sixth form applications after autumn half term, so the more sink time for thinking and assessing options, the better. Also though, the larger sixth form colleges usually offer plenty of flexibility for changing courses up till just before starting the actual course, so there’s still plenty of time in that sense.

It will be suitable for any stem subject except medicine but that could be fixed by adding chemistry or science

This is nonsense on stilts. Please don’t repeat it. Further Maths is an extremely hard, if not the hardest,A level and stands on its own as a valid A level.

3 A levels including further maths will impress any university or employer.

It is not and should never be described as only a 4th A level.

Well, this is what I mean. It so often gets dropped that it's a fourth A Level as far as most are concerned

Yes, for the reasons given above - it is a very challenging A Level and it is difficult to know how any given student will cope with based on GCSE performance. Starting four subjects gives the student the option of dropping FM OR the fourth subject. If they only start with three, and find FM too hard to do well in, then they will be in a really tight spot.

And of course, although it is a great combination for Maths, Engineering and Physics degrees, it will be more limiting for a student who is not certain that they want to study one of those subjects as university.

A star A star A star is universally ranked higher than A star A star A A for admissions into maths and engineering.

But lots of schools and sixth form colleges treat it like that.

Yes as others say, this is not the case. FM is an A level in its own right. In DS2's year (2019-2021) it was timetabled totally separately at his school.

Mate of his did maths, FM and PE and went to Bath to study maths.

Agree with @noblegiraffe and others tho that it’s a good idea to take four, at least at first in case FM doesn't work out and she needs to drop it. I think @MrsAvocet has the shout – the first thing I thought when I read your post @Mumofteenandtween was what about PE A level as a fourth? DS took it and it’s broadly biology, very sciency, did not stop him getting offers from great unis. Plus with her ability she would be there already on the practical element.

That’s not true. My DS did Maths, FM and Physics at A Level and has now just finished his first year at a top Uni for Engineering (he’s going Civil). He had offers from all 5 Unis that he applied for. He has said that because he’s done FM, it’s been a big advantage for him.
Those three subjects are not limiting if she wants to do Engineering- in fact, they’re the perfect combo

It really isn't. Maths, FM and Physics is completely acceptable for the overwhelming majority of maths and engineering degrees, including top tier institutions.

I see the dilemma re sports but Further Maths is seen as an extra A Level.

Firstly, this is not true at all.

This is something we've looked into carefully as DC is a few years ahead. Similar to your DD but without the international sporting career 😀

Echoing PPs, the reason your DD should start with four is because aptitude for maths at GCSE level does not guarantee that her maths will be strong enough for FM A Level. Obviously having a GCSE grade 9 is a great starting point, but may students come unstuck and it is difficult to predict with certainty.

Most sixth forms now run the Maths and FM A Levels concurrently, sitting the FM AS Level in year 12. This is really helpful because it gives the student a good steer on whether or not they are likely to do well at the full A Level the following summer. They can then choose to drop with FM or their supporting subject, to concentrate on optimising the grades in three rather than four A Levels.

In terms of admissions - I've looked at this very closely and by doing this the only real university our DC is probably ruling themselves out of is Imperial, which does indeed expect 4 A-Levels. But I think Imperial was off the cards anyway for our DC because the admissions is incredibly tough. All other unis (including Oxbridge) seem happy with Maths, FM and Physics, and indeed FM seems to be preferred over a second science. Obvious exception would be chemical engineering which would need chemistry.

There is a very knowledgeable poster @poetryandwine who I think has experience in STEM admissions who may be able to advise.

My DS did those A levels, went to Oxford and is an actuary.

I did this then doubled down with a pure maths degree.

Never knew what I wanted to do tbf, but our course was heavily targeted by data, science and engineering companies, everyone had a job lined up before they graduated.

So I guess it's only limiting if she wanted to do something that didn't use these skills. She won't do much by way of influencing, presenting, project management, demonstrating written ability, etc.

AI is the way forward in lots of technical jobs. I wonder how the science landscape will change in the future. But that's also true for research and content jobs.

She's obviously bright, if she realises the degree of her dreams needs a different a level she can take an extra year or two and sit another.

I would find out if they teach Maths one year then further maths the next year as that is the best way. Otherwise you need the Maths knowledge to be able to study further Maths but haven’t done it in the maths classes yet.
I know that wasn’t your question but it is a consideration with these two subjects.

I am old so this is somewhat outdated. But I have A levels in pure maths, applied maths, further maths and physics. Throughout my career I was often surprised at the number of people who commented on what good A levels I had. I didn't find it in the least limiting.

This and it is something to really think about. I would maybe start with 4 and pick another and see which one she wants to end up dropping down to.
starting with those 3 leaves little room for manoeuvre

I have to ask what is the competitive sport ? Tennis possibly, they will tell you anything. At year ten so 14 or 15 year old it is ridiculous to say that she may make a living out of it. My DD was ranked 3 in the country at her international sport at 16 years old and doesn't even compete anymore.
Did well at Uni though with a chemical engineering PhD good luck.

To repeat previous posters, if she decides that she does want to do maths, FM and physics, she should start with 4, and then reassess once she has done a few weeks whether she thinks she is capable of getting a good grade in FM. We usually have a few drop out of FM and they are only able to do this because they are doing 4 A-levels. I've also had a student insist on starting with 3, then finding they really couldn't do FM and having to restart Y12 the next year.

Would she consider Maths, Physics and PE? As your DD is a serious athlete she'll probably find A level PE interesting and not too demanding. She'll score very highly on the practical component meaning it's likely to be relatively easy for her to achieve a high grade. As she's competing at a high level she's likely to have covered/will cover plenty of the theory within her training programme too. It's not an "easy" A level in absolute terms but for someone in your DD's position it's likely to be straightforward and will leave her more time in what I assume will be a packed schedule combining A levels and a high level training programme
My DS did that combination and it actually leaves lots of doors open. He is doing a Sports Engineering degree now but also had offers for general mechanical engineering degrees and could equally have gone down a Sports science route or various healthcare related courses. There are probably other options that he didn't consider too. Lots of the engineering degrees he looked at wanted Maths, Physics + something else and the grade seemed to be more important than what the something else actually is. And PE is accepted as an alternative to Biology for quite a lot of health science related courses.
It's not a common combination and lots of people thought DS was making a poor choice but it worked out well for him and certainly didn't stop him getting offers from some well regarded Universities.

I did maths, further maths, physics and chemistry for exactly the same reason and I regret it. I didn't benefit from the chemistry A-Level at all.

Personally I think she doesn't need a 4th A-level at all and pursuing a competitive sport brings her all the roundedness she needs. If she really wants to do more, then I would advise doing either an EPQ or perhaps psychology - something that she can link in to her sporting experiences.

This isn't right. One of my DC got into Oxford with 3 A levels, including FM. The only concern would be the risk of finding the FM content too hard, and then having to find an alternative third A level. If she's a strong natural mathematician she should be fine.

They ONLY reason to start with 4 A levels is because a significant proportion decide they dislike FM at A level but can't drop it as they would otherwise only be left with 2 subjects.

Maths, FM & physics is an acceptable combination to apply for maths at Oxford. If FM is available she should take it if she wishes to study maths or engineering at a top university.

Double maths and physics is a pretty solid engineering combo.