3 or 4 A levels for Maths & Computer science degree - Quandry

I suspect you will find some good threads on Student room where this is debated. If your DS takes four you could not do an EPQ if school does these or alternatively do 3 a levels and a computer science related EPQ.

Definitely keep the further maths.

Often even top universities only offer on three, so you can afford for the fourth to slip.

Keeping all 4 is likely to make the first year of university perhaps less stressful - those subjects all feed into one another.
Dropping one makes 6th form an easier ride - but is it worth it if you are playing catch up later?
4 A levels is arguably better prep for an intense degree course at a very highly competitive university.

I would at least start with four and see how it goes.

This, definitely. DS is at a top uni doing engineering, he did maths, FM, comp sci and physics. He was predicted 4 A stars and got them. At his uni they pretty much expect you to have done further maths for engineering and I'm pretty sure it's the same for comp sci. It would be seriously frowned on if you applied from a school or college that offered it but you'd chosen not to take it. They would question why. Be aware for top unis even if you have 4 A stars, you're not guaranteed a place for comp sci, though. It is insanely popular and not all can let everyone in.

Incidentally, DS's friend chose not to take further maths when he went into Year 12. However, when he looked into the unis he was thinking of, also for engineering, his chances were definitely going to increase with further maths. So he ended up picking it up late in the end, I think. It might have even been very late, as in having to do it with the year below or something like that and working extra hard to catch up.

Your DS can aways decide to drop FM if finds it all too demanding. It's harder to catch up later. My DS and his friends who did FM actually said that it helped to be doing a LOT of maths all the time, because physics is all maths, and of course doing FM meant you're pretty much guaranteed to find the normal maths easier. I mean, you have to love maths, I guess. I did A-level maths because I got an A in GCSE and I quite liked it, and my others were language subjects so I thought it would be a nice contrast. But I wasn't a natural mathematician, something which I realised too late into 6th form when others were gliding along and I was struggling once we got to Spring of Year 12. It is a BIG step up from GCSE to A-level.

Yep. And please don't rely on anything on mn - however well meant, sometimes info is outdated or in some other way inaccurate so double-check the uni websites, students can email admissions tutors if those aren't clear.

For CS, Warwick say they don’t consider a 4th A level. Also they want a strong set of GCSEs. So they look at them. It’s vital to look at every course info and not guess.

Yes - someone who is uncomfortable with the idea of the workload of more than 4 A levels and/or in some cases the difficulty of FM may do better on one of the many other very good courses available in U.K. universities. And hopefully it goes without saying that students should be looking at these too and not using all of their 5 ucas slots on the (perceived) 'top courses'.

I would focus less on 'getting in' one of these top Universities, but rather on thriving once there!

If you are an A-star student in FM then the ordinary Maths and most of the Physics should be easy.

This!

And in that case you should be able to manage a fourth A level fairly easily, even an unrelated one.

My dc at Imperial has friends there that took 5 A levels as well as lots of international friends that have very strong Maths skills.

@Willow2020 - it will vary between the different unis, I'm afraid you and your Ds will need to check requirements for each course he's interested in individually.

Oxford seems to place more weight on GCSEs in general than elsewhere; Cambridge stem admissions less so, and may be more appropriate for students with uneven results in non stem subjects. I think they don't have any specific requirements if you're from an anglophone country and can manage the interview sufficiently well but not sure.
Imperial otoh appears to have a requirement of a grade 6 English language.

If you are an A-star student in FM then the ordinary Maths and most of the Physics should be easy.

DS did these 3 plus Chemistry and found the Chemistry the hardest work.

Unfortunately no extenuating circumstances

The reference from the school can help contextualise a bad result - eg did something happen on the day of the exam, any dyslexia that isn’t severe enough for extra time.

My son wants to do computing and aiming for oxbridge/imperial/warwick.
He goes to a highly selective school.
He is a very able child and got 9s for all his GCSE but English lge he got 5 (he was predicted a 9 and this was a total shock)

He is going to resit but we are worried that even if he gets 4A* and good TMUA and good PS, he might not get into a good uni due to his eng lge gcse and resit

Please advice

Warwick maths BSc

The is one of my favourite emoticons, I'm often confused.
So, imperial maths BSc...

As does Warwick but it drops one if you do well in the MAT or TMUA

@ErrolTheDragon

Imperial does if you bother to look

And less of the idiotic confused emoji

In this scenario, you should always start with four.

If that is too much, he will have an opportunity to drop one at a later stage. The one he chooses to drop at a later stage might not necessarily be the one he wouldn’t choose to do now. Doing four to start is therefore maintaining more options for longer.

For many able students doing double maths, doing two other subjects on top is very doable. You just need to be organised and motivated and able. The skills that he will develop having to manage four A-levels will stand him in excellent stead if he ends up doing STEM at a top end university. Doing four is therefore excellent preparation.

I didn't think there were any courses which state they have a requirement of 4 A levels, I just looked at the requirements for Oxford maths it's 2A stars and an A.

There are a few (cambridge...does anywhere else?) which may make an offer including all 4 if four are taken, but students who've only done 3 can get an offer too. It may be that most of the offers go to students who've done 4 ... but whether that's merely because they've done 4, or more that the ones who've done 4 also tend to be the ones who do well in the entrance tests and interviews is unclear.

Does the school offer maths year 12 and then fmaths year 13? They build on each other so it used to be common to do 4 Alevels if maths and fmaths were two of them as they just timetables two subjects but you completed each in one year not two.

However if he wants you to do a Maths degree he'll need 4 for those unis

It does look like though that for Oxford and imperial at least he'll just need maths FM and one other subject so if he wants to drop one then it may be ok. I'd call the unis though to be sure. That's for CS

You also want to consider whether he wants to start a course at Uni where the vast majority of students have FM and he doesn't. It will be a challenging first year to catch up. At Imperial/Oxford/Warwick almost everyone will have FM.

@vaux777 Warwick only consider 3 A levels for CS. They want 2xAstsrA. They highly recommend FM. They know not all schools offer it but it’s still highly recommended. The steer is clear - take 3. One should be FM, they wants mathematicians!

I would add doing M and FM for 2 years is better. Or starting with 4 and reducing to three in y13.

CS was very very competitive this year and loads of applicants so students predicted 4 A stars were being rejected due to high numbers