Has anyone's DC gone on to a Level 3 apprenticeship after doing A levels or BTEC? Did it lead anywhere beyond that?

@Sunbeckons Congratulations to your DD - I hope she gets on famously 😊

Good news. Thanks for letting us know it, and congratulations to your daughter.

@Sunbeckons I don't know much about progression from a level 3 apprenticeship post A levels, but if your DD has a deferred university place for next year, if she were offered this post or something similar, it sounds like a great opportunity for an 18 year old.

Business admin is more generalist than engineering, and I wouldn't think there would be so many places at above level 3, but it would be useful grounding for making a transition towards professional training for higher level qualifications.

If she enjoys the work/training and sees it going somewhere then she can stick with it. If she picks up some skills - admin, office management, accountancy, computer skills, customer service, she would also be able to apply for other jobs or training, perhaps more specialist training in some kind of business.

If she decides to take up that deferred place, this could be an above average gap year. She could start university with a little more money saved up towards rent/living costs. She might have more options for holiday work. If she returns to education next year, or later, she might get more out of her studies than those who went straight from school to university.

And even if it turns out to be really dull, that might be an incentive to return to education!

There are clear higher apprenticeship pathways for 18 yo school leavers in some areas eg accountancy, aspects of IT and engineering (latter to BEng only). There are higher apprenticeships, genuinely open to 18 yo, in other sectors but they are very thin on the ground. So you have to know, at 17, what your likely career path is and it fortuitously to match one of the broad areas above. That is nub of the issue.

In the case of your DD's L3 opportunity, the logical apprenticeship step up is the L6 Chartered Manager pathway. However, I am only aware of this being heavily utilised by certain manufacturers and retailers where management of large workforces and complex supply chains are central to the business. This may or may not match the profile of this particular employer.

Alternatively she might be to vector into HR, via the CIPD pathway, or marketing, via the CIM pathway, or, subject to quant skills, some of data analytics pathways. So exposure to one or more of those functions in the target organisation, whilst doing the L3, might prove beneficial.

If your DD is offered and accepts the L3 apprenticeship, my advice is that she shows she has a thirst to progress eg asking for more complex tasks once simple ones mastered, wanting to know more about the business. Self-promotion (in the right way) is not necessarily a skill that comes naturally. So encourage your DD to see that aspect as perfectly OK and actually quite important if she is not to be unwittingly overlooked in an organisation where, perhaps, the new starters with potential are automatically assumed to be the grads.

@Sunbeckons I agree. The HNC at level 4 is what’s needed. Day release as we used to call it! Then 2 or 3 year degree top up.
Having to wait until 22 is late to start the degree.

The issue for employers is indeed getting the right apprentice for the business. So many dc now go to uni it’s a big sift to find the next layer down who are trainable. Obviously they are there but have not necessarily got the best A levels so an academic education might not suit. Often they don’t really know what the nitty gritty of the work and education looks like either and find it hard. They aren’t spoon fed in the same way as at school. It’s a steep learning curve. Definitely great for some but others might be better off with full time college below degree level.

I think that policy is a big issue for school leavers and adds to the huge competition for degree apprenticeships. Dc are forced to go to a lower level and work up. So although working they start the degree when others are finishing the degree. It’s been beneficial to earn whilst training but the degree holder will (should!) start on more money and will be qualified much sooner. Therefore promotion tends to come more quickly. Depends on which branch of engineering and company but some grads will accelerate quickly if they are any good and where there are extreme shortages.

My son is just about to start his third year as a aerospace engineer apprentice. His pay will be round £24k rising again to £27k in his fourth and final year. After that he can gain full time employment with the company.

Once he has completed that the door opens to degree apprenticeships/funded courses. Those are not open to people who has not completed the foundation apprenticeship.

The apprenticeship has literally been his pathway to a career with great training, supportied education and hands on experience

I think the which degree will change as we go forward and actually that might be more about the person than the degree - lots of factors at play and depends if the aim is to get a degree, job you want and be debt free and earning good money or just be the Oxford first but with accompanying debt and possibly a great job in 10 yrs. I think that is a bit picky and OK if you can front the debt as a family - for the majority that is not a possibility and the apprenticeship alternative is a good route

Yes My son did a 4 year apprenticeship and is now a qualified electrician.
No debt and is on a very good salary.

@RB68 That depends on the degree and where it’s from. Some degrees are always sought going to trump others and dc catch up very quickly. 10 years on, some degree holders will be earning more.

I think for the longer route - being paid and getting experience at the same time is the bonus - you also come out without the debt - I think its a win all round to be honest

@Sloejelly I was really referring to the steady employee who might not want a degree. Companies need all sorts of employees. Rarely just degree holders.

Friend’s DC will get a degree as long as they pass their course - that is what degree apprenticeships are. He attends university a couple of days a week.

https://www.ucas.com/apprenticeships/degree-apprenticeships

@Sloejelly I don’t think they will. A technician isn’t a degree holder, usually. Companies need all sorts but it’s very difficult to judge what they might need to do regarding business decisions. This is a risk but getting a degree is an expense. A degree is a known outcome but an apprenticeship with limited outcomes might not be great for mobility between employers.

Friend’s DC is at a very large national company that will lead to a sought after degree (degree apprenticeship). My point was more a warning about the company itself, with business decisions impacting on your experience/qualification. Unlike universities where students of the customers, businesses are focused elsewhere.

I have a DC for whom a level 3 apprenticeship may be appropriate - precisely because they won’t be getting a degree. I am hoping that many employees won’t just be recruiting future high fliers by this route, but will also be looking to recruit the steady workers. The sort of steady employees who will do a relatively basic job well and continue in the same job for years.

@Sloejelly I agree that not all is rosy and many won’t get anywhere near £42,000 pa as a 22 year old technician. Even with overtime. It’s rare. Eyes open works best.

Business is ok if the qualifications are portable. Eg HR. So investigate thoroughly.

If you are going down the apprenticeship route, especially in a volatile market place, be very careful choosing the company. My friend’s DC is doing a graduate apprenticeship in a very large company. That company has just restructured, made a lot of people redundant and moved a lot of jobs elsewhere. Suddenly the degree apprentices find they are no longing able to rotate departments, and the local university centre that trains them in the academic side is looking to its future too as the company led the local market in that specialism. My friend’s DC was lucky in get stuck in an interesting and varied department but others are now unable to rotate out of departments that don’t interest them.

Honestly @TizerorFizz I was just trying to illustrate to the OP that a Level 3 apprenticeship can lead to big things, that it could give you opportunities that you didn't realise it could. That it's not an inferior option and it might be a springboard to things that you hadn't ever imagined. I didn't expect to be having a pissing contest with someone who sees my DS's journey as less valuable because he's done a Level 3 apprenticeship and hasn't made it to CEng YET. My DS is 22 - he's got a lifetime ahead of him to forge his own path and create a career that is of his own choosing. But right now he's earning good money - most of which he's saving - so he can get himself on the property ladder and have the luxury of making life choices that having a good wage gives you. Life's tough enough for our young people as it is these days so the 'learn and earn' route is ideal for many and I don't think any the less of anybody who chooses that path - I say good on them.

@HappySonHappyMum I think there are branches of engineering that doesn’t care about CEng. All levels of engineering need technicians. Not everyone can be a leader. In DHs branch of engineering is much more structured with CEng needed to sign off work, or they could kill people. The technicians don’t design anything. Fortunately for safety it is required that some engineers are fully qualified, Numbers don’t always lead to the best careers.

I am an Apprenticeship Provider. I know of many who have gone on to higher levels (5/6/7) and flourished via the Apprenticeship route.

My brother did a level 3 apprenticeship after a-levels, he now pays more tax in a month than I earn, has been head hunted twice and moved his way up quickly. He didn't do any further apprenticeships of any level, didn't need to