apprenticeship vs college

If he wants to be an electrician I would encourage an apprenticeship with day release for qualifications. This is what my son did for networks and telecoms. He started at 16 is now 25 and lives in London and always has decent jobs with good IT consultancies

@Fifi04 Harris say students take 9 GCSEs or 8 if not doing a MFL. So 6 GCSEs aren’t taken. You have possibly thought English and Science are two subjects areas but they are possibly 4 or even 5 examinable subjects. Ask DS if you don’t know exactly what he’s studying.

Level 7 is masters degree. There’s a big gap between an electrician apprenticeship at 16 and a masters degree or equivalent. Also people who have done accountancy and other technical apprenticeships can either do professional exams with their employer or a degree and professional exams during their apprenticeship. An electrician won’t do a degree, but will do the qualifications necessary for that occupation. All forms of post 16/18 learning is education.

DC with Sen or those who find learning difficult do carry on learning and courses are available for them. FE colleges are often vocationally biased but areas vary.

I just read all above posts today. Very good explanation from you all about educational set ups and different levels provided whilst showing lot of patience. @Fifi04 kindly speak to your son's school about opportunities available for him depending in his predicted grades.

@Fifi04 yes I finished my education years ago. I'm director level

I am very curious about where people get these strange ideas about college from.

I think that you need to try to learn yourself.... about what education actually is.

College is not 'for people who don't want to learn'

Apprenticeships are not 'somewhere in the middle'

Learning a trade on an Apprenticeship whilst earning is an excellent way forward for some.

Going to college is excellent for others.

Your son needs to talk to his teachers, not you, I'm afraid.

Are you counting English as one subject, and science as another? Those two would normally be 2 GCSEs each. What are his other subjects?

I don't think his percentages are really relevant here - presumably when you've said he should get grades between 4 and 7 that's based on his teachers' predictions?

I can well believe Harris would limit them to 8 GCSEs, and if English and Science are actually double, then he'll leave with 8 not 6 GCSEs. Which is a normal amount, and decent enough grades - not below average at all.

Regardless - if he wants to start and electrician apprenticeship and can find one then let him go for it. More than likely he'll end up with the same qualification going down that route than if he went to college for two years - this way he'll have good work experience and hopefully a job as a fully qualified electrician.

@Fifi04 also you keep asking about "what do the other students do" (as their grades are lower). Do you not realise colleges are for all different levels of ability. Your son may require certain GCSE grades for the course he wants - but different courses will have different requirements.

I am surprised a Harris school only lets him do 6 GCSEs - they're all about academics, results and looking good 🤔

@Fifi04 So is this the extent of his gcses? Just because 6 is the minimum , does not mean that he should not be aiming for more. Schools are measured by students taking 8 gcse subjects. How does that fill the timetable? What year is he now?

6 subjects.
Most schools require 8-10 GCSEs. To only do 6 GCSEs is unusual.

6 subjects, what sort of school is it?

But 5.5 doesn't correlate with 55% because the grades are only 1-9, they don't go up to 10.
It would have made more sense if you had explained your working out at the start.
Also schools don't give 1 average score across all subjects, they give an individual expected grade for each subject.

I'm not sure you understand the 55%. That is not 5.5 grade average, no schools work that way. Taking 6 is below average.

Why is he only taking 6 though? English language and literature , maths, double science + Spanish, is that really it? Schools aim for 8 minimum unless there are additional needs.

The company I work for has electrical apprentices. They can follow 2 different paths. Some will join us straight from school and do day release to college once a week. Others will join us having spent two years at college doing their L2 and 3, but needing to do their portfolios.

I think my dd will go down the apprenticeship route which I'm sure her father will be happy with as he can stop paying maintenance.

Apprenticeships are education. I started out my career in an apprenticeship and from there sat professional qualifications afterwards. I'm just as educated in my profession as someone that went down the 6th form/university route, I just chose to earn throughout my years of learning rather than rack up a huge sum of student debt. What I will say is that on the job learning can be invaluable and by the time I qualified in my profession I had an extra 5 years of experience over the university educated student. Things I was taught to do as I worked my way up the career ladder my peers didn't have a clue how to do and that did give me a huge technical advantage early on.

if my son has 55% - sorry but I don't know these names - he is above the national average in education in general, my question is what about the children below? If out of 210 children he is placed in places 60-90 and you write that he is not suitable anywhere, what about children from 91 to 210?

@Fifi04 55% won't mean that, but if you don't elaborate on context noone can help. Kids who fail to get English and/or Maths gcse will resit those or until achieving a level 2 Functional Skills in numeracy and literacy which are equivalent and take lower level vocational courses alongside. These may be Entry level upwards to start with which are below gcse level. Once the minimum qualifications are achieved they may progress onto level2/3 until they turn 19. If they have additional needs there are often specific non qualification courses at college (Supported Learning) which have embedded maths and English skills within activities such as cookery or crafts.

@Fifi04 the children below that level will either (as I said above) spend time re doing some GCSEs at either a college or school.
Some won't and will just fall out from the system and either end up unemployed.
Some will get jobs that really don't care if you have GCSE History or whatever.
Colleges will offer course from Level 1 (GCSE grades 1-3) and functional skills all the way up to (sometimes) degree level.
If your son fails to get the grades he needs to do the electrical course or apprenticeship (so grade 3 or less) he could go to college and retake GCSE (usually English and Maths) and do a level 2 (GCSE equivalent) electrician course at the same time.
That would be for 1 year.
He can then move up to the next level after.