How important are A stars at A level?

Hi OP you’ve had some really useful responses here I think. Just to add that your child’s motivation is also really important in my view. My DD did combined science GCSEs - she did get 7/7 (Covid grades not actual exams). However we had never thought of her as a scientist and she started out with humanities A levels and psychology as a new subject. She flew with the psychology and then picked up biology - ended up getting A* in both, but she worked incredibly hard and was genuinely interested in the subjects. My DS1 by contrast is unenthused by his subjects and not really working for them. So I think there are a lot of factors other than GCSE grades that can influence it.

Taking Oxford for French is someone who is predicted AAA and then scores highly in MLAT less likely to be selected for interview than the the 3 x A star applicant with a mediocre MLAT score?

Perhaps not but the person predicted AAA and scoring highly in MLAT is less likely to be selected for interview than the person predicted 3 x A stars and scoring highly in MLAT - and the harsh reality is that for oxbridge there are enough of those to fill all available places a few times over.

Tbh @Thisvehicle i was just focusing on achieved grades. The importance of As or A stars for predicted grades is another, and interesting, aspect. And Cambridge of course does require an achieved A star in its standard offer for French

as far Oxbridge goes in terms of interview the pre-admission tests will play a key part. so I don’t fully share your imagining on that, although clearly unless a level of confidence in being able to achieve the requisite minimum grade standard not much point in entering for the pre-admission tests in the first place.

Taking Oxford for French is someone who is predicted AAA and then scores highly in MLAT less likely to be selected for interview than the the 3 x A star applicant with a mediocre MLAT score? Other factors such as the PS, low participation neighbourhood, school frequency of having Oxford applicants undoubtedly factor at Oxford, but they can probably better see through some of the high predicted grade BS.

Oxford and Cambridge like every other Uni know that predicted grades are notoriously inaccurate, over 80% being wrong, and massively loaded towards over rather than underpredicting in terms of error.

I would imagine though that few if any who do well in the pre-admission tests are not expected to get some sort of A / A* mix in their actual A level results.

possibly (overly optimistic) predicted grades might have a greater benefit for applicants to the handful unis who want AAA, or perhaps AAB for French. Although I have no actual evidence to support that thought.

The Oxbridge don’t need Astars is a bit misleading.

The offer may not involve A stars but I’d imagine it’s much harder to get an interview without them predicted.

There was no "covid grade fiasco" other than several cohorts of students having their education buggered up by the pandemic, due to the decisions of the utterly appalling DfE and Gavin Williamson.

And then the ones who were hit by it part way through their GCSEs were again fucked over by the government in last year's A-Levels.

A stars are important if the child wants to go to a university that requires a stars. It’s as simple as that.

Pretty much sums things up

does It boil down to - if you really want to study a subject you will get a B in at A level you can but you will end up at a less prestigious or competitive uni?

Not for a subject like French

Only one UK uni, Cambridge, requires an A star to study French, although that can be any of an applicants A level subjects, not specifically French.

Only three - Oxford, Durham, and Edinburgh - require all As

St. Andrews standard offer is AAB, but does require an A in French; UCL's standard offer is ABB (but again requires an A in French).

So just six unis where an A grade in French at A level is needed for degree study.

The CUG lists 47 unis (out of 130) as offering French at degree level. Out of the top 20 listed below most are ABB standard offer as shown below. Though not in the top 20 KCL was referenced in an earlier post so I've included it, plus the last uni the ranking.

1 Cambridge A*AA
2 Oxford AAA
3 St. Andrews AAB (does require A in French)
4 York AAB
5 Bristol ABB
6 Durham AAA
7 UCL ABB (does require A in French)
8 Bath ABB
9 Lancaster ABB
10 Nottingham ABB
11 Cardiff ABB-BBB
12 Newcastle ABB
13 Exeter ABB
14 Edinburgh AAA
15 Surrey BBB
16 Warwick ABB
17 Leicester ABB
18 Southampton ABB
19 Birmingham ABB
20 Manchester ABB
23 Kings AAB
47 UCLAN BCC

In terms of A star grades in England just 8.6% of entries were awarded that - obviously lower than in the TAG years, but higher than the 2019 level. the 2023 figure for French was 10.6% at A star As another pp noted overall over 50% of grades were A star-B; however for French it was 66%.

Again in England just 3820 students who took 3 levels got A stars s across the board https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/infographic-a-level-results-2023/infographics-for-a-level-results-2023

.https://ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2023/08/a-level-and-other-level-3-results-2023-the-main-trends-in-grades-and-entries/ gives a good summary of 2023 A level results, and has a subject filter

https://www.jcq.org.uk/examination-results/ provides an excel file with a breakdown by subject and grade 2023 and showing the previous few years to that.

There may be something more recent but https://www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/674348-progression-from-gcse-to-a-level-2018-2020.pdf shows GCSE to A level progression.

That simply isn't true. The proportion of grades was adjusted back down to their normal levels after the covid grades fiasco. They weren't cut, they were retuned towards normal. Nothing to do with Tory wickedness.

My kids have applied to mainly second tier RG or equivalent universities, for arts and humanities subjects. The offers they received were almost all AAB or ABB and there was an element of flexibility on results day.
But if you want to do economics, law, psychology, computer science etc at a top ten university then yes, you will def need As and A*s - and there is also less leeway if they slip a grade on results day.
MFL degrees do tend to have slightly lower offers because they struggle to attract enough applicants. See also subjects like Theology - friend's son got into Durham with ABB for that (having missed offer by a grade).

Not all universities need to see top grades even for competitive courses. Someone I know just started at Newcastle Uni (2023) studying medicine. Predicted 3 As, top 8% UCAT, but got no offers (in 2022). Then achieved A, B and C at A level. Year out. Reapplied and this time got 2 interviews and was offered a place conditional on resitting the C grade. Resat the C (Chemistry) and got a B. Place confirmed. They did however score very highly on the UCAT (top 5%).

For MFL at university, it's possible to get in with more modest grades.

You then have the next batch of consistently excellent universities: Edinburgh, Manchester, UCL etc. they might ask for A stars. They are likely to want at least a couple of As even in the least popular courses

Not necessarily. DS went to Manchester to do MFL+English with ABC grades, and indeed had offers from all five places he applied. That wasn't what the websites said, but he was possibly lucky. And he then worked his socks off to prove that he was as good as anyone else there.

He got an A rather than A-star for language at GCSE.

I do think motivation counts for a lot. If he's motivated to do French then that could go a long way. Get him off to a French summer school and he will come back fluent and ace the a level.

It's all a bit of nonsense really as universities are not independently regulated or checked by anyone. But they all mysteriously cost nine grand a year, regardless.

Also last year's cohort in England may well have produced exam papers that were worthy of A*s and As but the government decided that too many were students getting these grades and they changed the grade boundaries for political reasons.

So you can work your butt off for two years and be predicted top grades all along and then some Tory suit pulls the rug from under you at the last minute. It's an absolute bullshit system.

@Leftoversgalore it must depend on the courses then.

Both of my DC got offers of A star, A and A for Oxford. That was for Physics a few years ago and Earth Sciences now.

50% of a level grades are b or above in 2023. So logically it would get you into an average uni not a top one.

There has been grade inflation since we were at school

My message did have stars against all the As

I got into Russell group with ABC.

DD can't believe it, she will be applying next year and fully expects to need AAA for similar courses.

It's much harder now.

“The best” is a subjective measure.

all universities want the brightest students and exam results are the best way of assessing this. They don’t really give two hoots about DofE, musical instruments, gymnastics etc, they want super bright kids to get really high grades in their degrees.

if you look at the top ten in the past five years there are some consistent universities appearing in most rankings.

cambridge and oxford
durham
lse
st andrews
warwick

all may ask for A stars in one or more (possibly in all)

Bath, Lancaster, Loughborough

These are not part of the Russell Group marketing consortium so have to work a bit harder to attract kids. They won’t ask for A stars but will still have a lot of kids applying with A star predictions because they are extremely good top ten universities

Bristol and Kings probably will ask for some A stars in many subjects.

You then have the next batch of consistently excellent universities: Edinburgh, Manchester, UCL etc. they might ask for A stars. They are likely to want at least a couple of As even in the least popular courses

then you have those that typically sit in the middle to high teens. These tend to be well known but not at the top. Such as Leeds, Exeter, Nottingham, Surrey. They’ll ask for As for popular courses but not necessarily A stars.

Then you get those which actually consistently rank fairly low down but because they’re a part of the Russell Group still flock to go there such as Newcastle which is massively popular (party place) but doesn’t rank highly. If they are Russel Group they may still ask for As. This is simply because they can due to the power of being in the group. Others which are in similar ranking positions outside the top 20 are probably only going to be wanting Bs.

This is all generalising massively. There is enormous variation and you have to go online and look at the course requirement for each course at each university. Degrees are not consistent like A levels. Each university runs a different degree course. Every university needs to fill its spaces so sometime you’ll get lucky and get in with lower grades or find unexpected courses in clearing. This year for example there

were medicine places and Durham courses in clearing (although they didn’t drop the grade requirements, it’s just that they had spaces because the kids who thought they would be going there hadn’t got the grades).

And no a 7 doesn’t automatically mean a B. It could end up as an A star.. or a D

A stars are important for some Universities, but you don't need all A stars even for Oxbridge.

More prestigious ones will want As though. Things have changed since we went to University. I got two Medical School offers with 3 Bs but that wouldn't happen now.

Lots of Universities offer French degrees if she wanted to go further than A Level, and not all will want A and A star. The content also varies. Some study ancient literature like the equivalent of Chaucer, others are more practical.

Back in the day one of my classmates quietly posted her rejection to Oxford and instead went to a Polytechnic to do French and Business. Last seen in a super top job in Europe.

I wouldn't let your DD be put off doing French A Level if she loves it just because she might get a B.

See I think that's a bit misleading tbh. For some subjects, maybe many subjects, at some unis, yes A stars or one A star is needed. But DD had AAB for Warwick, only a few years ago, and a friend's DD studied engineering at Sheffield and was asked for AAA or maybe AAB.

But yes, economics at LSE or maths at Oxford will need A stars.

Does he have any idea what he might want to study at university? I would look at the entry requirements of a range of universities for courses he might want to study. Language degrees dont tend to ask for a stars even at the top universities but maths and computer science do.

And yes, if you want to get into the really good unis you need a stars.

It's really competitive these days.

Some A levels are famously hard.

Others are more accessible.

Someone with a 7 in maths, for example, would probably be allowed to do maths A level but is likely to find it difficult. They will need to work very hard, and are unlikely to get good grades.

MFL A levels are also notoriously hard and require a lot of work.

There are quite a lot of students who don't always appreciate precisely how hard A levels can be. They often start, don't work very hard and then there is a lot of pastoral support needed as the student does badly in tests etc, asks for extra support from the teachers, parents get involved and have discussions about how much work is needed at home etc.

Some sixth forms are happy to put in that work and give the students the extra support they need to succeed.

Other sixth forms have students queueing up who are capable of working independently and are keen for the opportunity, so they don't want to get involved with the kind of student who is likely to struggle to adjust.

Hi op, I would say someone who achieved a 7 in MFL (my subject) would be more than capable of taking the A level. Their A level grade is of course not a given, but I would expect them to be looking at around a B, yes, depending on many factors.

My ds got 8 in maths and a B at A level.

It depends where he wants to go at uni and to some extent what course. The most popular unis do ask for A stars for some courses. Have a look online.

But equally, I know plenty of students who went to RG unis without any A stars. Ds had RG offers of AAB and ABB. He’s at Lboro (not RG! But very highly rated) but if he were studying sports science there, he would have needed A star AA.

Don’t stress too much about it - most students don’t gain A stars. He should take the subjects he enjoys that he will do best in, and that will help him towards the uni course he wants, if appropriate.

This isn't true, I got a trainee accountant job based on A-levels only, as did my niece who works in a big 4 accountancy firm and went there straight from school.