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Further education

You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum.

Original poster

No teacher for A-level - need an advice

88 replies

JTro · 03/11/2023 10:00

Hope someone can advise me what to do in this situation. My DS is in Year 13, one of his A-levels is Further Maths (FM). At the beginning of this school year, students doing FM chose what to do: 2 majors or 4 minors. My DS chose 4 minors and on the first week of doing his 4 minors he found out he has no maths teacher who will teach them ( it's 4 of them). Since then, Maths Subject Leader said that they need to teach themselves on Google Classroom, where she put some study materials while she try to sort it out very soon. Later on "very soon" transformed to "by the end of the half-term". When end of half-term happened, she said "at the beginning next half term it will be sort it out". Yesterday was first day of new half-term and of course the issue is still there. Now she says "it will be sorted out soon". At the same time, his Head of Year approached him and stronly advised to drom FM A-level and do AS-level instead, my DS refused. After that Head of Sixths Form approached him and again "strongly advised" to drop FM A-level. As his predicted grade for FM is B, I suspect this is their attempt to solve the issue by less painful way for them, but not taking into ccount his best interest. As all this happens through talking with his Maths subject leader, it looks like they will push him and few others to study FM themselves as long as they could and they are really missing out on proper studying and they do the same level on tests as other, who do have a techer. I need an advise how to approach school regarding this issue and finally make them to teach these 4 students properly. Should I contact Head teacher, or go straight to Governors? Just for reference - I am not familiar with A-level system at all, he is our first who is doing A-levels, and probably it's a norm when students learn themselves?

OP posts:
FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy · 03/11/2023 22:12

There are videos available here from AMSP:
FMSP video links
but this will not be as good as a teacher. I would get him to choose the other options and then if you have the energy complain to the school that they offered non viable options which they left him waiting on for so long.

Resource - AMSP

https://amsp.org.uk/resource/4b42a0ae-0857-49c3-5f88-08dabcb692fe/

HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:11

That's so weird

My DS is taking FM A Level and is just doing pure maths and none of these other options

Can he not go somewhere else

My DS took his maths A Level in the summer in Yr 12

The maths dept sound absolutely dire

Why in a grammar school are they taking both maths and FM in yr 13

It's like a rubbish school

Boomboom22 · 03/11/2023 22:09

The thing is no way is the teacher going to put on extra free lessons because your ds wanted to do options that create a tt clash.
But it is poor not to just upload the materials to the Google classroom when she teaches them to the others so those with a clash can catch up. FM is not usually taught in as many hours so most a level have 5hrs a week ish, FM might get 2 anyway as you have to be very capable to even do it.

Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 22:07

FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy · 03/11/2023 21:57

As said before MEI ocr have 50% Core pure and the other 50% of either 3 minors or 2 minors and 1 major. I have taught this in the past.

I’m not clear from your posts how many students are studying further maths in total, and not just the options he has chosen.

All the schools I have worked in have had large maths departments, where as I have been one of only 2 or 3 maths departments.

What strikes me as odd here is that he has been given a choice of options if this doesn’t match the staffing. In my school we don’t offer students a choice of options as we don’t have the classes to accommodate this.

In your case I think the options are:

  1. if there are timetabled classes with different options I would strongly advise switching to this- even if it is a less desired option it is much better than self teaching

  2. If not use the AMSP/ formally further maths support programme to support independent study

  3. drop further maths

It is very hard to find good maths teachers, let alone good further maths teachers, so it seems to me that the failing of the school is possibly offering options that they could not accommodate. But at this stage you need to select one of the three options above.

Thank you! As I understand AMPS should be offered by the school, we are, like individuals, can't sign up to this. Out of the listed options, of course the first one will be less damaging for him

OP posts:
Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 22:03

TizerorFizz · 03/11/2023 21:59

The whole issue should never have arisen. If 4 pupils opt for something, that’s not enough. If there is no teacher availability, it should never have been offered! To anyone. In my old grammar, the maths department did the timetabling. It’s clear this has disadvantaged these pupils and the maths department really cannot expect them to teach themselves and 4 students is never viable for a separate group. So why was this combo ever offered? They must have known there was an issue much earlier in the term.

Exactly! And Maths subject leader was aware of this situation straight away, back in September, but carried on to give promises to "sort it out" up until yesterday!

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 03/11/2023 21:59

The whole issue should never have arisen. If 4 pupils opt for something, that’s not enough. If there is no teacher availability, it should never have been offered! To anyone. In my old grammar, the maths department did the timetabling. It’s clear this has disadvantaged these pupils and the maths department really cannot expect them to teach themselves and 4 students is never viable for a separate group. So why was this combo ever offered? They must have known there was an issue much earlier in the term.

FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy · 03/11/2023 21:57

As said before MEI ocr have 50% Core pure and the other 50% of either 3 minors or 2 minors and 1 major. I have taught this in the past.

I’m not clear from your posts how many students are studying further maths in total, and not just the options he has chosen.

All the schools I have worked in have had large maths departments, where as I have been one of only 2 or 3 maths departments.

What strikes me as odd here is that he has been given a choice of options if this doesn’t match the staffing. In my school we don’t offer students a choice of options as we don’t have the classes to accommodate this.

In your case I think the options are:

  1. if there are timetabled classes with different options I would strongly advise switching to this- even if it is a less desired option it is much better than self teaching

  2. If not use the AMSP/ formally further maths support programme to support independent study

  3. drop further maths

It is very hard to find good maths teachers, let alone good further maths teachers, so it seems to me that the failing of the school is possibly offering options that they could not accommodate. But at this stage you need to select one of the three options above.

PerpetualOptimist · 03/11/2023 21:41

One of my DC did OCR FM. The OCR syllabus has two compulsory papers (Pure 1 &2), accounting for 50% of the total. You then have to do a minimum of two option papers (accounting for another 25% each). There are four option papers to choose from: statistics, mechanics, discrete maths (ie algorithms) and extra pure.

A feature of OCR is that you can sit more than two option papers in the exam and the two option papers with the highest marks are used (along with your compulsory pure papers) in assessing your overall grade; the marks achieved in your less successful, addition option papers are disregarded. The upside is that students can cover a wider range of topics but the downside is they can spread themselves very thin and it complicates things in relation to teaching.

It sounds like your son and some others have elected / been persuaded to cover all four of the options. It might potentially be sensible for them, perhaps with the guidance and help of the Head of Maths, to work out how best to focus time and effort on just two of the options, rather than all four. For reference, my DC who sat OCR FM only took two options. Another DC sat Edexcel FM, which has a very different overall structure.

Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 21:34

user701 · 03/11/2023 21:30

Why can’t he join the other class? Does it clash with another subject?

That's what we are trying to find out.

OP posts:
Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 21:32

noblegiraffe · 03/11/2023 21:18

Ah, it's not OCR, it's OCR MEI.

https://www.ocr.org.uk/qualifications/as-and-a-level/further-mathematics-b-mei-h635-h645-from-2017/specification-at-a-glance/

The options selection is probably irrelevant for any future plans, he should just join the other class and study what they're studying.

I told straight away, all these A level things are not familiar for me:) I asked him why he decided to choose 3 minors instead of 1 major and 1 minor, his reply was for him it's easier to learn about each of these areas, not too deep, than learn 1 area deep and 1 not not deep. We also discussed if school offers to change the options, he will definitely consider the offer, so for now we'll just wait

OP posts:
user701 · 03/11/2023 21:30

Why can’t he join the other class? Does it clash with another subject?

LolaSmiles · 03/11/2023 21:06

Not all maths teachers are able to teach further maths A Level. In an ideal world all secondary maths teachers would have maths degrees and be able to teach any and all aspects of the course. But that is not the case unfortunately
That's what I was going to say. There's every chance that some Key Stage 3 classes are being taught by teachers from other subjects too, or agency staff who are recent graduates with no higher than GCSE maths themselves, or support staff. I've known all happen.

I'm not following the major/minor part of the issue either, but surely in this situation the best option would be for him to join the class that has a teacher and accept a change in topics.

Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 21:06

Right, just digged through school communication emails, and found these regarding FM (taken from school official course description):
The Pure Maths is 50% of A Level Further Maths. The other 50% comprises Options. Options are to take 1 major and 1 Minor, or to take 3 Minors. Minors are Mechanics, Statistics, Numerical Methods and Modelling with Algorithms. Majors are Mechanics and Statistics.
So, DS is doing Pure maths, and 3 minors.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 03/11/2023 20:56

Further maths teachers are rare btw, even among maths-qualified teachers.

noblegiraffe · 03/11/2023 20:54

JTro · 03/11/2023 19:18

It is 100% OCR, just checked. Probably they called these FM part a bit different internally, I don't know. We'll see what solution will be offered, hopefully on Monday I'll get a reply, so far nothing except dropping to AS level and learning themselves was offered.

Show quote history

OCR has two compulsory papers, Core Pure 1 and 2 which make up 50% of the marks. You then pick 2 from Stats, Mechanics, Discrete and Additional Pure, which are each worth 25%

There isn't an option called Algorithms, or Calculus. If he is doing Stats and Mechanics, then he can't do the other options, everyone has to do the Core Pure modules.

I genuinely don't understand the set-up and I don't understand why they can't join the class with the teacher. If it's because they aren't doing the same options, then taking the same options as the class would be better than not doing FM.

stripybluesocks · 03/11/2023 19:21

ItsJustJust · 03/11/2023 19:19

Not all maths teachers are able to teach further maths A Level. In an ideal world all secondary maths teachers would have maths degrees and be able to teach any and all aspects of the course. But that is not the case unfortunately.

indeed, very few maths teachers are qualified in maths

Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 19:21

Curioushorse · 03/11/2023 18:54

Right. As far as I understand it- and this situation is weird- there are enough maths teachers, but for some odd reason just four children have been asked to teach themselves a whole A-level.

OP, nobody is understanding the four minors and majors thing. That's obviously something the school has come up with.

This seems like a fairly simply thing then.

The Head of Year is not really the person to deal with. It's the Head of Maths. There should also be a member of senior management who is responsible for the academic stuff. Email them. Copy in the Head of Year, by all means. To be honest at this stage I'd be copying everyone.

I've dealt with a lot of parents this week. They often have way longer to compose emails than we do. Keep it short, because that means there's fewer words obscuring your main points.

I'd just say something like, 'We're concerned that our child has now been without a teacher for ten weeks. Can you give us some indication of what's going on? Can we arrange a meeting or a phone call to discuss this situation?'

It's very weird, and a bit 'grammar school' i.e. on the surface it seems like they're giving the kids responsibility and opportunity- but it is basically quite neglectful and sloppy. They're relying on the fact that the kids are bright and motivated to cover up for poor, or in this case, none, teaching.

yep, thanks for summarizing it!:) The thing is I have no other contacts other than Head of Year. Was trying to get Maths subject leader school (!!!) email through school, was told it is confidential, so he is the only point of contact for me for now. Will update as soon as I get a reply

OP posts:
ItsJustJust · 03/11/2023 19:19

Not all maths teachers are able to teach further maths A Level. In an ideal world all secondary maths teachers would have maths degrees and be able to teach any and all aspects of the course. But that is not the case unfortunately.

Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 19:18

PocketSand · 03/11/2023 18:48

Doesn't sound like OCR. If he can't drop down to 3 A levels because of college bizarre rules he should drop to 2 majors in FM. It really doesn't matter.

If he needs to know it, it will be taught at uni. There will be lots of applicants who have studied different exam boards and different elements. He needs to focus on entry requirements if he wants to go to uni. Even they only want to know if students were good given what they were taught.

It is 100% OCR, just checked. Probably they called these FM part a bit different internally, I don't know. We'll see what solution will be offered, hopefully on Monday I'll get a reply, so far nothing except dropping to AS level and learning themselves was offered.

OP posts:
Curioushorse · 03/11/2023 18:54

Right. As far as I understand it- and this situation is weird- there are enough maths teachers, but for some odd reason just four children have been asked to teach themselves a whole A-level.

OP, nobody is understanding the four minors and majors thing. That's obviously something the school has come up with.

This seems like a fairly simply thing then.

The Head of Year is not really the person to deal with. It's the Head of Maths. There should also be a member of senior management who is responsible for the academic stuff. Email them. Copy in the Head of Year, by all means. To be honest at this stage I'd be copying everyone.

I've dealt with a lot of parents this week. They often have way longer to compose emails than we do. Keep it short, because that means there's fewer words obscuring your main points.

I'd just say something like, 'We're concerned that our child has now been without a teacher for ten weeks. Can you give us some indication of what's going on? Can we arrange a meeting or a phone call to discuss this situation?'

It's very weird, and a bit 'grammar school' i.e. on the surface it seems like they're giving the kids responsibility and opportunity- but it is basically quite neglectful and sloppy. They're relying on the fact that the kids are bright and motivated to cover up for poor, or in this case, none, teaching.

PocketSand · 03/11/2023 18:48

Doesn't sound like OCR. If he can't drop down to 3 A levels because of college bizarre rules he should drop to 2 majors in FM. It really doesn't matter.

If he needs to know it, it will be taught at uni. There will be lots of applicants who have studied different exam boards and different elements. He needs to focus on entry requirements if he wants to go to uni. Even they only want to know if students were good given what they were taught.

stripybluesocks · 03/11/2023 18:35

well, if he doesn't even want to do FM, why doesn't he just do the AS?

Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 18:30

PocketSand, the third one is definitely Algorythms, the 4th I think Calculus (but not sure)

OP posts:
Original poster
JTro · 03/11/2023 18:28

PocketSand · 03/11/2023 18:19

DS2 is doing a full A level OCR FM but is not doing all four - I think it's statistics, mechanics, pure and further pure? - because his college don't cater for all 4. I can understand that if he wants all 4 they would say stop at AS. But he could still do less than 4 and still have a full A level. Makes no difference to uni application.

But DS2 is also only doing 3 A levels. His college won't allow students to do more as it is in excess of uni entry requirements.

His school started with a new initiative (exactly when he started his A-levels) - all of them are doing 4 A levels, full stop. 1 A-level can be only dropped if the student is not doing good at it (not my DS's case), it was specifically emphasized on parent's meeting when all A-levels were discussed. He would love to focus on only 3 A-levels, would they allow him to do it at the beginning, he would get much better grades for the remaning 3 (Chem, Phys, Maths) than predicted and would appy to the Uni he dreamed to go from when he was 9. It would be a different picture now.

OP posts: