Third A level - Sociology or something else?

Without checking, I think HSPS has been offered at Cambridge for about 5 years.

@massifcentral if you’re an admissions tutor and you’re favouring students with Greek a level then by default you seem to imply you favour those from private schools?

My dc1 is studying philosophy and politics and neither Greek nor Maths would help him. Obviously it may for some strands of philosophy it may.

It's HSPS. It's changed. More students applied for HSPS per place than virtually any other subject last year, . Your chances of getting in were very small. You can find those stats easily enough. It's branding itself as their answer to PPE.

I'd be intrigued to know why a science A level is more useful than a soc sci or hums one to PPE.

Of course PPE has produced many of the current Tory flock. Not sure it's admissions were all that discerning!

By the way, I know a young man doing hispol at OU. Sociology, history and politics A levels.

@Piggywaspushed

Philosophy, mostly for PPE

When I was at Cambridge (25 years ago, admittedly) HPS ranked just a notch above Land
Economy as a joke subject. I'm sure that's not true now, but I find the idea that it's a prestige subject to rival maths, Natsci etc. rather unlikely. What makes you think this?

Of course, if a teenager is 100% sure she wants to study sociology, then it's not a bad A-level choice. The same might be true with philosophy.
(Personally I would far rather someone had done Greek or Maths, because they are more useful in the course and skills that can't be acquired easily at university.) But if someone isn't 100% sure, it's better to pick a subject that teaches more transferable skills.

I should have added that a lot of the psychology students didn't have the grades to do most of the other subjects. They needed a grade B in English language for psychology but in fact quite a few got on to the course with a C. There were a lot of drop outs and some of these students were managed out of 6th form at the end of year 12 because they didn't achieve the minimum of D grades at AS level (this was in 2017).

Obviously, this wasn't a selective grammar school with lots of "halfway bright" students

Our entry requirements are lower too at my school which doesn't help...

I think the social sciences are looked down on because in many cases they are untried subjects, and the less academic pupils take them at A level. This was certainly the case at DD's school where a LOT of less able students took A level psychology.

What the snobs don't realise is just how difficult it is to get an A or A* in these subjects.

And kitty is too humble to mention that her DD's favoured offer is from one of MN's most favourite and envied institutions!

I think she should take whatever would interest her most!

my dc are at / were at a grammar school and no one does 4 a levels unless it’s maths / further maths (I’m assuming grammar school students would be classed as halfway bright by the previous posters scale - anyway universities will only offer in 3).

my children’s school did not offer sociology.

One took Politics, Geography and Psychology and is currently studying Philosophy and Politics at a highly ranked Uni.

The other is taking Biology, Chemistry and Psychology and received 5 offers to study Sociology at Uni.

DC1 enjoyed Politics A level but it was neither a help nor hindrance in getting onto his course. I think the only requirement was an essay based subject.

DC2 required an essay based subject for sociology and all we’re happy to accept Psychology for this purpose.

MN is weird about Sociology- a poster told me that if dc2 was clever enough to apply for the universities she did then she should apply to do a proper subject. Some factions of MN think sociology is for thickos and anyone with a hearty breakfast inside them can get an A* without even trying.

it is a rigorous subject and the fact that selective schools are offering it shows it’s well regarded.

Ugh it did that annoying A* thing

The whole uni admissions system is pants, really.

Many subjects at degree level unis are just looking at grades no matter the subjects. (Yes I know some eg Geography you need Geography A level etc, Econ need Maths etc. Many, many you don’t).

So I look at the subjects my DS did with some regret as I consider them harder to get A or A in than some others. For example, he did Biology. Are we saying that with all the medics doing Biology needing top grades only for admission that it’s just as easy to get an A in that as another subject that is less competitive?

At DSs superselective grammar (top 5%) less than 40% took 4

At DDs grammar (top 20% - does that count as “halfway bright” what an appalling comment btw) less than 5% take 4

WRT sociology, it's your daughter's life and her qualifications. If she wants to do sociology and believes she can do well in it (if she believes she can do well in history, she probably can!) then she should go for it!

She is much better off getting, for example A*AA including sociology than AAB including something she is less keen on.

In terms of graduate employment, relevant work experience and placements will be what give her an edge, not subjects studied at A-level.

No. And it has never been the norm to do 4 full A-levels.

BBBB is not seen as equivalent by unis to AAA, btw.

Wasn't actually arguing with you xenia. I understood your point.

The only reason I suggested English lit is it went well with my hisotry A level and was the classic suggestion for law as knowing history and writing essays is quite good preparation although you can certainly be a lawyer with science A levels (one of my daughters is in that category)

As she has 2 traditional harder subjects already I think she should do economic or English lit but for this 3rd subject go for the one where the results are likely to be highest.

No, it isn't.

Most halfway bright people do 4 at my dcs school.

Is this the case at most schools? Can any teachers/admissions tutors confirm this?
It used to be the case at many schools before A levels were decoupled.

There's no need for them to do that. Is the school doing that to bump up results? Most schools can no longer luxury staff 4 options.

It's complement, by the way. I don't normally correct but it's an important distinction .

Science keeps Science options open. It is no better at keeping other doors open than any non Science subject. Unless people want to specialise, all A levels keep doors open. The OP's DD is no better a candidate for a history and politics degree with a physics A level instead of sociology . She doesn't seem to want to do a Science degree.

I obviously meant another STEM subjects to compliment maths
Most halfway bright people do 4 at my dcs school.

wish someone had done something more useful.

How do you know this once they are studying? At what point do you assess how 'useful' their subjects were? Once the students are admitted, the discussion of A level subjects vanishes. I would hate to think an admissions tutor is actually bringing her own snobbery to decisions.

English Lit (I teach it) is less useful than many subjects. Great subject, yes. Teaches analysis , the use of sources , independent reading and writing, and hone essay writing skills. Depending on texts taught, teaches some history and cultural awareness. But many subjects do that.

DS is doing a history degree. His best result so far has been 74% in an essay where he used directly useful knowledge from sociology A level, upon which he was commended.

So a B in French is better than an A or A* in sociology @massifcentral?

Most universities want high grades.

Oh, I spoke too soon!

Admission tutor for what??

Cambridge literally teach sociology . It's in HSPS one of their flagship subjects, with some of the most competitive entry stats.

Not sociology.

Oxbridge might say it's fine, but that's because we don't want to discourage the kinds of applicants who are more likely to have done it. I am an admissions tutor and I always wish someone had done something more useful for their degree course. A language would be best. Or English Lit. Or a science subject.

@PerpetualOptimist's suggestion to look at past papers of untried subjects is an excellent one. DD chose psychology as one of her A level subjects and hated it. Luckily it was a fourth subject so she dropped it after AS levels.

I’d say for her to go with what interests her the most. A Levels are hard but they’re made a lot easier if you have a genuine interest in the subject.

And then I would follow @ALS94's advice.

And there is no such thing as "facilitating subjects" any more. Certain degrees require specific A levels, but the term facilitating subject has been binned.