If you're a lawyer,

Scotland. Law degree. Work in house. I find some NQs aren’t great. There is always room for graduates who are bright, capable and hard working. It’s a good degree and in industry plenty move into more business focussed roles.

I am not particularly ambitious nor hard working so moved out of private practice as soon as a I qualified. It’s much more interesting in house anyway

I studied English, then later did a career change and did the GDL, now work in tax. I've mentored someone through the CiLEX process (an alternative route to law).

I did an LLB law degree, then the LPC and trained with a big international law firm. I secured my training contract before doing the LPC so I got sponsorship as it was c.10k and my family couldn't afford that, nor was I willing to get a loan. Training at a big law firm was incredibly hard work - late nights, stress, demanding colleagues clients and partners - but it did set me up very well for what I do now (working for a boutique international firm which is much friendlier).

I think things have changed now and the qualification routes are different with the SQE. Apologies I don't know too much about it but I think it is intended to make things more accessible by allowing relevant experience to count rather than requiring a training contract. However, if I had my time again I would still go to a big and reputable firm at the beginning of my career, as it opens doors for you even if you change speciality or want something less intense.

@TheaBrandt Are you a barrister who has switched specialism? That’s unusual due to intense nature of law knowledge required and the years it takes to be recognised and build up a practice.

Totally agree about GCSEs. They really do matter. It’s always best to err on the RG plus side for university too. Often a first degree that is not law is to enable the student to do well in their choice of subject. However an academically recognised one is best.

Agree. We are advising our Dd that if she doesn’t get top grades she should opt for something else (maybe Eng lit that she loves) and not law. It’s just too competitive and if your grades are lower you risk not getting a training contract after all that study..

Really irked me when friends last year would confidently announce that GCSE grades “don’t matter”. Sadly they do if you’re heading for law - you need to be realistic.

Law - commercial litigation

DH - Law and Politics - corporate

friend - nursing - clinical negligence

friend - biological science - property finance

friend - geography - commercial property

friend- classics at Cambridge - commercial litigation

As above MC etc type firms will filter by A level grades possibly A*s.

Others ie decent regionals will want AAA/AAB at least.

The easiest way is still to apply for summer internship and be offered a TC with funding for SQE1 and 2 prep courses and some offer maintenance too.

SQE by yourself and with paralegal work as work experience can be done but again unless high grades at regarded uni (per Chambers link above) will just force a bottle neck when looking for NQ job unless for minimal pay in a provincial style high street practice rather than a regional.

There will always a be a story of someone with low grades from a uni not fitting the mould but this is very much the exception not the rule still.

I'm am in house lawyer (mainly tech/commercial) and did a law degree. Sometimes I wish I'd done something else (probably languages) but since moving in house the law degree does help me with all the random stuff I get asked - I may not have the up to date answers as my degree was a long time ago but at least I have a starting point!

I did a law degree, not sure whether I would if I had my time again.

I practice in civil litigation and although I have switched subspecialty I wouldn't want to change area altogether.

I did 😀

@Thea Law degree from Durham is a passport beyond a local corporate firm. Depends what she wants of course!

Also barristers really do not change their specialisms. If anyone wants to swap from family to corporate- good luck! Solicitor or barrister.

The apprentice route is a serious one now. A girl at dds school turned down an offer from Durham to do the law apprenticeship with the best local corporate firm. I think this will become more common and not “looked down on” as it used to be. She was a top candidate.

That said I would be abit sad if mine missed out on going to university….but financially it makes sense for sure

Honestly lawyers come from all sorts of academic backgrounds. Thinking about my friends, they have undergraduate degrees in classics, history, economics, art, maths, law. Most did the law conversion course. I don't know anyone who didn't do a university degree of some kind though - it's a basic requirement

I think law is actually pretty flexible once you are qualified. I was told at the start of my career by a recruitment person that you can’t change disciplines. Nonsense! I have done it all - high street / magic circle international corporate / back to private client working for myself. Also in house or even not in law but similar my neighbour trained as a lawyer but never qualified she’s a senior planner v good career. So it can be a good “base”.

My husband was managing partner at his large firm. He did law at Oxford, but said he liked it when a candidate had a non law degree - if they studied something that really interested them. Of course they would have to have done very well, but he felt they were more well rounded. But if your passion is law (as his was), then law it is!
He was an IP lawyer.

Business management degree and I am an employment solicitor.

The system for solicitor has just changed by the way so do check the latest information, not what is posted online.
I did an LLB (law degree). My lawyer children did a different degree first and then a law conversion course (PGDL). Law firms still like an LLB or PGDL from their future solicitors.
Barristers (who are NOT most lawyers) qualify differently.

For potential solicitors during your degree you can apply for a training contract (2 years of paid training once your exams are over) which in bigger firms might be paid at about £40k a year. The firm would also pay for your professional courses and exams too but these are very very competitive to get even if you are an Oxbridge first. Some people will find it hard to obtain any training contract and work as a paralegal after their law exams for a few years to obtain a job.

I (solicitor) do commercial/business law in London as do my 4 lawyer children.

I would start by looking at you daughter's GCSE and potential A level results. The bigger law firms tend to like at least AAB A level grades and a good university degree and look at your barks even year 1 of your degree.

If your daughter did a 3 year LLB and applied for a contract whilst on her degree, the firm would pay for her SQE1 and 2 courses and exams and then she would start a 2 year paid contract with the firm - ie working. That is one route. The London City Consortium firms eg. set out their scheme here https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/rs2jvepv/the-city-consortium-solicitor-training-programme.pdf

It is also possible to do an apprenticeship for 6 or 7 years from age 18 after A levels (and also a new kind of graduate apprenticeship once you have a degree) to become a solicitor - see https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/career-advice/becoming-a-solicitor/qualifying-without-a-degree/apprenticeships You still need to pass the same exams - SQE1 and 2 to qualify if you go the apprenticeship route. Most solicitors do not start through that route as apprentices however and it can be quite useful for life experience to leave home, make friends, go to university for 3 years etc in the usual way.

History (3 years)
Conversion course (1 year - only needed if you didn’t do a law degree)
LPC (1 year - everyone had to do this, law degree or not. This is for solicitors - barristers would do 1 year at bar school instead)
2 years training in a law firm, a couple of exams, and then qualified.

As someone had said there are some apprenticeships now, which didn’t exist in my day.

Also some large companies offer the 2 years training, instead of via a law firm.

My daughter did musical theatre first. Did a few roles then COVID hit so went back to do a law degree online. She's just finished her diploma and has a traineeship starting in September. She's just turned 30

I did an LLB (my lawyer children did a different degre first and then a law conversion). I am a solicitor. I practise commercial/business law in London. There are lots of lawyers on MN and some very good advice above on this thread.

Although technically possible to qualify via an apprenticeship at age 18 in my view it is better to go to a good university after A levels either to do an LLB or a different degree first. 50% of lawyers do an LLB and 50% a different degree. If you do a different degree the law firms even under the new SQE system for solicitors tend to prefer oyou do a law conversion (PGDL) before your SQE 1 and 2 courses and exams (which in turn are before your 2 years of a training contract if you are lucky enough to get one.

The timeline for the City Consortium firms is set out quite well here

Also at university apply - firms recruit years ahead and ideally you want a law firm to sponsor your post grad year(s)/courses/exams and then pay you as their trainee for 2 years. www.slaughterandmay.com/media/rs2jvepv/the-city-consortium-solicitor-training-programme.pdf

Some statistics for which universities trainees come from are quite helpful here
www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities-2019
Some recruit university blind but you still have to pass all the tests to get to interview/assessment stage. Some will have programmes to help the disadvantaged too.

Also pick 3 very good ideally hard A level subjects if you can and aim to get at least AAB in them.
Barrister is a different route.

I think there are currently around 6000 solicitor vacancies for trainees each year but way more people than vacancies. It will reduce if London loses its position in the financial markets.

DD has friends who are city lawyers and they work very hard for big money. You truly have to want that lifestyle and the brains to get it. Provincial solicitors in small local firms are very different but often people are paralegals for years prior to getting taken on to be solicitors. Yes, the bottleneck just moves up the line without the old training contract route.

Criminal barristers make little. Payment after lengthy cases means you need funds to pay the rent. Usually from mum and dad. Then there’s the travel and overnight costs. The best advice is to read up very carefully about all the routes into law and decide which one is best and attainable. Don’t think you will be Cherie Blair or Amal Clooney overnight - be realistic. Play to your strengths at undergrad degree and beyond. However a traditional academic degree is best.

@TizerorFizz, I am not surprised about what you described about becoming a barrister. You must really love it to want that lifestyle.

There is quite a difference between becoming a barrister and becoming a solicitor. Solicitors don't tend to schlep around to courts but their work could involve more international travel if they work on cross border deals as a solicitor. OP's dd will have to choose on graduation which route she wants to go down.

I found this link which explains the difference between the barrister and solicitor route quite well www.thelawyerportal.com/careers/difference-between-solicitor-and-barrister/

If it is hard to get a training contract (in old money) to become a solicitor, I think it is even more competitive to get pupillage at a barristers chambers. In terms of numbers, there are roughly 8 solicitors for every barrister. Therefore, there are more opportunities to become a solicitor. Hopefully the new SQE will remove the bottleneck around having to get a training contract and make it easier for law graduates to get the experience necessary to qualify as a solicitor. That said, that just moves the bottleneck to the point of getting an actual job as a newly qualified (NQ) solicitor.

On salaries for solicitors, the top solicitors earn millions. Famously a corporate M&A solicitor was poached from a magic circle UK firm to work for the London office of a US firm for 10m per year. NQ solicitors at top US firms earn 170K on qualification - we are talking about a 25 year old who is barely wet behind the ears. Hence the competitive nature of getting a training contract in a City firm.

But you can earn a decent living as a solicitor or barrister for much less, just that you must enjoy it more if the monetary rewards are less as the law tends to be a hard slog to practice as a lawyer. I always think that there are easier ways of earning money outside of the law if you are not aiming for stellar figures. You don't have to work in a law firm (private practice) as a lawyer but can become an inhouse lawyer instead, which suits some people better. These roles can also pay very well and are more commercial which some people find rewarding. A law degree or good first degree is nonetheless a good foundation to pivot to another career, if OP's dd is not inclined to become a lawyer.

@blueshoes
Its not easy to get a job! Or get pupillage. Training contracts are still being offered and the big firms still have their contracts with the Law Schools. Otherwise the aspiring lawyer pays the fees.

We have in excess of 18,000 plus young people studying law at university. Some won’t expect to be working lawyers. Then there are huge numbers studying other academic subjects and then wish to convert to law. As an example: circa 1400 people qualify as barristers each year. There are around 450 pupilage opportunities each year. You are not a fully qualified barrister until you complete pupilage. So passing the exams is only one partial qualification. Previously unsuccessful applicants can apply. Therefore it’s very competitive. Law grads are then competing along with classics, history, English etc grads. People from all sorts of backgrounds. One thing they have in common is that they are mostly bright and capable. I think their qualification routes are changing too but it won’t be any less competitive.

@exwhyzed
Anyone wanting a career in law should be academically bright and understand it’s a slog. Some people love it. DD (family law barrister) and friends do. Barristers can be poorly paid. Work can be unpredictable and barristers are mostly self employed. DD travels to courts all over the place. Chambers in London but clients are not! Early starts and overnights not unusual. Some career changers find money issues (NO monthly salary) and travel a risk too far. You pay for your own pension. The CPS is the employed Bar. So it all takes a lot of research and an understanding of whether you will ultimately be successful.

There is also the issue of first degree. They might recruit university blind but look at A levels. They also look at degree studied. There’s a reason why 40% of barristers are Oxbridge.

Degree in history from a a good (not oxbridge) uni, conversion, LPC (as it then was). Now a partner in a City firm.

There are now apprenticeship routes in, they involve working for a firm for 6 years while studying part time (the last 2 years being equivalent to a training contract). They are very new at a number of firms, so not sure what the experience is like.

Degree in law and French from Russell Group. Qualified solicitor working in à compliance/ethics role at a Big4 firm. Son about to go to uni and wants to be a lawyer (Suits style). Loves history and politics so will study that. If still keen on law, he will do conversion idc. I’ve enjoyed my career… he needs to make his own decisions.