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Further education

You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum.

Original poster

IB or A Levels, tentatively thinking of medicine

57 replies

thedoofus · 13/10/2022 10:21

Hello!

I've read through previous similar topics, but this hasn't come up for a while, so thought no harm in asking again Smile.

DD is in Y11. Predicted 8s/9s in everything, solid all-rounder. Generally a high achiever, both academically and in other areas (head girl, lead in school play, peer mentor etc etc). She enjoys all her subjects and is self-motivated. Tentatively thinking of medicine, and hoping to do some work experience soon to explore that further. If she does A Levels, they'll be Sciences - probably Biology, Chemistry, Maths, and possibly one other.

Sixth form college also offers the IB, which I think sounds brilliant (I would have LOVED it when I did A Levels), and would mean she could keep up English and French (the French she especially enjoys and is good at). But consensus does seem to be that it's more work/pressure and I'm interested in people's experiences of that.

DD currently has a part-time job, and while we could finance her not having one, it seems like good experience to continue to work through 6th form. We haven't looked into getting into medical school very extensively, but I guess I'm concerned that the extra work with IB might leave less time to pad out her extra-curricular stuff like work/work experience etc. Also, obviously, I want her to have time to enjoy life. She manages herself and her time well at the moment, but I know how much pressure kids can put themselves under (especially high-achieving girls maybe!) and I think it's important to have time for the rest of life too.

Of course it's her decision to make, but I'd love to hear any thoughts/experiences people have for my own interest.

OP posts:
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Original poster
thedoofus · 04/05/2023 10:16

@DoggerelBank Thanks, that's really good to hear. DD has just had her interview for the IB course - course coordinator said 3-4 students get into medical school every year (of a cohort of about 50 IB students), which sounds pretty good to me. DD is increasingly leaning towards doing the IB, so it's great to hear a success story.

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Skybluepinky · 02/05/2023 14:47

thedoofus · 19/10/2022 13:24

Do you think so, even at age 15 @nocoolnamesleft.

I'm sure other people know more about this, but my understanding is that less than half the people who apply to do medicine will get a place to study it. I think it'd be unwise to do anything more than tentatively consider it almost a whole two years before it's time to apply for the courses. (But this may say more about me than about prospective medical applicants, and why I'd have been fundamentally unsuited to it - the tentative is my word rather than hers!)

I think some of the tentativeness may also come from that general female reluctance to take up space. (As an aside, DD is doing Further Maths GCSE - of the 20 kids who've chosen to do it, just 2 of them are girls.) And from the knowledge that she has far more to find out about it (e.g, work experience, taster days, talking to people about their jobs) before she is able to make an informed decision.

15% were accepted not 50%.

DoggerelBank · 02/05/2023 14:28

Her (state) 6th form college gets several IBers into med school every year, usually more than the A level people at that college.

DoggerelBank · 02/05/2023 14:15

My DD is now 4th year medic. She did IB. Loved it. By medicine standards, she's not stellar academically (As and A stars at GCSEs rather than straight A stars), but the breadth of IB was fab for her. She's still using the French she learned - about to do a month of work experience sewing up surfing injuries on a beach south of Bordeaux. All the debate and presentation skills in IB were helpful for interview confidence. She didn't work (for money) during 6th form, but she got fab experiences doing all the extra curriculars and volunteering she needed for med school and IB CAS.
You do have to cope well under pressure in IB - but so too in a career in the NHS. Uni offers were a little more complicated with IB compared to A levels, but also a little more flexible if you didn't quite make the offer. A levels will be fine, of course, but if your DC fancies doing the IB, aiming for medicine shouldn't be a reason to put them off, in my view.

Original poster
thedoofus · 02/05/2023 14:00

I guess if 2025 is the first year that the BMAT universities move to a new system that will make strategic applications much more difficult that year. I wonder if it will mean those universities are seen as 'riskier' for that cohort (and if, consequently, that will make them lower risk if they get fewer applications). What a minefield it is!

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NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 02/05/2023 10:46

Leeds has already switched to UCAT for 2024 entry. Because Worcester/Three Counties (graduate-entry, international only except 2023 entry) is already using CASPer, albeit at a later stage in the process, and Kent & Medway uses it for non-standard applicants, there's a possibility some might consider it. However, it's expensive and most medical schools would be very reluctant to impose a substantial extra cost on applicants. Switching to UCAT seems the most likely step for most medical schools, but I'm sure someone will exercise a bit of imagination and find another way.

mumsneedwine · 30/04/2023 20:52

@W0tnow no one is too sure what's happening yet. Some might switch to UCAT, some might do their own exam. Hopefully will be one clearer soon.

W0tnow · 30/04/2023 20:32

mumsneedwine · 30/04/2023 16:51

@W0tnow BMAT is going after this year.

Is it? I didn’t know that. I only found out about it a couple of weeks ago. So I guess she’ll be the last cohort to do it. Are they replacing it with anything?

Melassa · 30/04/2023 17:26

My DD is doing the IB and has applied to study medicine. She chose 2 sciences plus philosophy at HL, maths she kept at SL as the HL one is much harder than A levels and pretty full on.

She didn’t have the choice of A levels as we are in Europe and Baccalureat style multi subject qualifications are the norm here, and as she is also applying to local universities and elsewhere in the EU, the IB appears to be more accepted (or more understood maybe?) than A levels outside the U.K.

It is very full on, there are IAs to do for most subjects as well as the extended essay and TOK, which are quite intense on top of the “regular” work but she is well supported by the school and the students often end up better prepared for university, as well as receiving a more rounded education. Plus, as a PP mentioned, it’s very useful to keep up with essay subjects even if you’re doing sciences.

There is not a great deal of time for lots of extra curriculars, be it sports, jobs or volunteering but where we are you can’t volunteer under 18 and the concept of Saturday jobs for 16yo is pretty alien, so no loss there. DD nonetheless manages to keep up with sport twice a week and plays an instrument once a week - this is actively encouraged as part of CAS - so it’s not all that all encompassing.

mumsneedwine · 30/04/2023 16:51

@W0tnow BMAT is going after this year.

W0tnow · 30/04/2023 14:29

There is also the BMAT to consider, and the study time that will need to be devoted to that.

My daughter is a super high achiever too, the decision to do A levels was easy for her as despite A* in all but one subject , for which she received an A, she disliked all the non science ones and was happy to never study them again.

Original poster
thedoofus · 21/02/2023 11:00

I agree it does seem a shame to drop subjects early as we tend to in the UK for three A Levels (though I know for some people that system works really well and they're delighted to focus in on something). I think if DD weren't interested in medicine, it'd seem an easy decision to do the IB, given her general abilities and interests. I feel much better about it now she has what seems like a very good option for studying A Levels if that's what she chooses and it feels more like a win-win situation for her.

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fortyfifty · 19/02/2023 15:23

I'd have liked my DD to do the IB as she was also an all rounder. It seems such a shame to give up humanities and English at 16 - in favour of just sciences and maths - when you're good at those.

The college which does the IB is in another county and would have been an awkward journey. In the end she did maths chemistry and biology and did an epq. She knew she'd definitely pursue sciences at uni, so it seemed fine really to narrow options at that stage.

Someone else we know did the IB and went on to study engineering. In her case, it gave her extra time to mature and decide on direction, as she'd not have chosen the right subjects if she'd had to pick 3 A levels.

ProfessorLayton1 · 18/02/2023 13:45

If medicine is her focus, stay with A levels. If she wants broader education, she can do an extra A level, EPQ etc., She will have an option to drop these extra things if she is struggling in her A levels. The jump from GCSE to A level is massive and a lot of children struggle in the first term.

ColouringPencils · 18/02/2023 11:35

I don't know at all and it seems from people who do know, that the focus for Medicine should be A-levels. Seems a bit of a shame though. If IB is more challenging than A-levels, then you would think the medical schools should recognise that?

Original poster
thedoofus · 16/02/2023 20:44

More useful comments - thank you.

Dd says college (IB) and school (A levels) get proportionally similar numbers of students into medical school. College says their IB students get more med school interviews, but roughly equal offers to their A level students. Both are state provision.

DD seems, as far as you can tell from GCSE level study, to be exceptionally academically able. Mock scores are solid 9s, where we know her actual marks they are very high. I think she is fortunate that she probably won't struggle with whatever she decides to do.

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Postapocalypticcowgirl · 16/02/2023 16:11

Will she get grades that are as strong doing IB? For most med schools, she will still need really strong Biology and Chemistry scores, as well as maintaining a strong overall score.

Does the sixth form or the college have a better track record of actually getting medicine offers?

I know a local sixth form which is seen as very high achieving, but in recent years has struggled to get anyone into medicine for some reason.

Justcannot · 16/02/2023 12:58

I've taught both, and been UCAS coordinator for both as well. If she loves a variety of subjects and wants to pursue loads, then IB is great. Its diverse, challenging, and far better preparation ofe university than A Levels. If, however, she knows she wants medicine, and is likely to get the top grades, then three A Levels and using the time to do her job and some serious volunteering is far more likely to pay off. If the IB school is private, then she'd be even better advised to do A Levels at the State school instead; widening participation and contextual offers are far more likely in that setting.

Original poster
thedoofus · 16/02/2023 12:30

I also meant to say, I hope your DD makes a choice she is happy with!

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Original poster
thedoofus · 16/02/2023 12:29

I think it sounds brilliant @ColouringPencils , and glad DD has the option. I think it's very hard for some kids to narrow down to 3 A Levels. I have a niece who wouldn't suit the IB, but is having real trouble choosing between her many interests.
DD is increasingly sure about the medicine idea and is looking at organising some volunteering and work experience. Still hasn't decided between IB and A Levels, partly because she has been offered a place at a very high achieving state 6th form to do A Levels, which has thrown a curveball into the mix. She is lucky to have two very good options to choose from now, especially given the area we live in, which will qualify her for contextual offers at most universities.

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ColouringPencils · 11/02/2023 22:20

My DD sounds a bit like yours @thedoofus and I wish we had the IB option so I feel a bit jealous! It's hard when you are an all-rounder to be absolutely dedicated to one area at such a young age.

In relation to the other conversation, I have no medical background myself, but of the doctors I know (20+ years post graduation), they all had significant pressure/ encouragement from their parents to go into medicine, and some of them didn't even want to do it. So personally I take the idea of knowing your vocation at primary school or whatever with a pinch of salt. Some children will always see certain careers as much more open to them, and that's not necessarily to do with their natural ability or personality.

Original poster
thedoofus · 20/10/2022 10:42

@Isonthecase - thank you, it's really useful to hear about your experience, which sounds quite unsettling. The college DD would be attending has been doing IB for a while and they do get good results, but I think that would definitely be something to find out more about. She's certainly clear that if she does A Levels, it will be sciences, so she may well decide just to focus on that.

Thanks for your input too, @Smileandtheworldsmileswithyou. She'd do the full thing, yes, which does sound like a lot of work! It sounds like such a good course to me, but ultimately of course it's got to fit the person who is doing it!

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opoponax · 20/10/2022 09:43

@TizerorFizz who said doctors were the brightest? I didn't write that. I said they were "among the very brightest". Big difference. Of course there are other bright DC that choose to do other valid things for other reasons. I'm just saying that if "wannabe" doctors were motivated purely by money and security, there are lots of other areas open to them where the stakes are just career progression and not human lives and where you get to have a lot more control over your own life. Do you honestly think doctors get to a stage where they can kick back and enjoy some gravy train? I would say from experience that is much more the case in other professional areas where you put in all the legwork in the earlier years and it gets easier when you get to the schmoozy level. But hey what do I know, I've only worked in that environment. I'm stopping here as it is derailing the thread and it was started by the OP for a genuine reason.

TizerorFizz · 20/10/2022 08:05

@opoponax
The people who earn highly in the jobs you quote are often very bright too! Not all the brightest are doctors! These other bright young people have to compete to do PPE and Law at top universities too. At grammars it’s not always the case the doctor wannabes are the best. Others can be gifted and want other careers. It’s still the case that holders of less “useful “ degrees in your view provide the wealth that’s needed to train doctors and pay their salaries. As this country will soon find out as we don’t have enough of them.

Smileandtheworldsmileswithyou · 20/10/2022 01:54

I have taught both A'levels and IB. I'm currently teaching IB in an international school and have taught the IB for almost 8 years now. It's great but lots of work. Would she do the full diploma, so TOK, CAS and an EE as well as 6 subjects? It is a lot of work but a great preparation for university.