Is it true that clever people go to 6th form and people who aren't go to college

Absolutely not. My son went from GCSEs to do engineering apprentice then did open university degree. He is very clever and decided to get up the ladder quicker he needed hands on knowledge as much as academic qualifications. At 28 he is management and earning a fortune. If you have the ability and drive you will do well with or without qualifications.

All the local schools here have sixth forms and offer A levels. The large local college only offers combined A levels so you can take only one A level along side another course such as a btec. So yes here the brighter students stay at school.

There were no sixth forms attached to schools in my county. There were colleges which had various entry requirements, some required better exam results than others. If your child wants to do a particularly course then they might be better going to a vocational college or a more academic one. I don't think it matters if people think that "clever" people do one or the other - just do whats right for you.

I think it varies wildly by area. Our local secondary (we have one) has a 6th form, but it is run as a separate entity to the school with its own head, no uniform and it also offers vocational pathways. In our nearest larger town there are about 5 secondaries, three of which have their own 6th form. There's also a 6th form college offering A levels as well as vocational courses so again, a mix.

Quite a few of our local students have their 6th form experience elsewhere because the course they want to do isn't offered here. Our local 6th form is selective for A levels - you need a minimum 6 at GCSE for your course, 7 and up is recommended for maths and the sciences.

Nah. I went to both. Got ADD at 6th form. Got AAA at college.

In our area school 6th forms are tiny or non existent, I know of at least two schools who closed their 6th forms in the last 5-6 years as no one wanted to go their.

The 6th form at ds’s school has a cohort of approx 70 per year and offers 14 A level subjects. The Catholic grammar is larger with just under 200 per year & 23 A levels offered.

The 6th form college & FE college are much larger. Both offer a very wide range of A levels and have good results.

None of the (highly rated by Ofsted) schools around here have 6th forms so there's no choice to stay on. Our local FE colleges require minimum grades for A level and offer excellent Btec options too.
There's a choice of two colleges nearby and I get the feeling parents who see their kids as 'academic' tend to want them to attend the smaller 6th form college rather than the larger FE college.
Both mine went/are going to the FE college to do a mix of traditional/other subjects (maths, English, philosophy, music tech), it's a brilliant half way house between school an uni and gets excellent results at A level and Btec.

I can't picture how they work, are they tiny? Or do schools in those areas tend not to offer A Levels so they have more intake? Do you have more choice of subjects due to it being dedicated?

The one near us is huge where as the sixth forms intake in local schools are tiny. None of the town centre schools offer A Levels, it's the rural schools that do, transport is limited and expensive, the journeys are pretty gruelling, the subject choices are limited.
The college offers a lot more subjects as well as vocational courses and a lot of extra curricular activity.

I have friends whose children left grammar schools to attend both 6FC & FE colleges because of more subject choice and better/specialist teaching.

"I can't picture how they work, are they tiny? Or do schools in those areas tend not to offer A Levels so they have more intake? Do you have more choice of subjects due to it being dedicated?"

The 6FC near me is large. It takes about 3,000 students from about a 25 - 30 mile radius and across 4 different counties. Some schools in the area are 11-16, but others do not, depending on where the students come from.

Yes, 6FC do tend to offer more choice, both across A levels and within them, so for example, you could choose history or Ancient history, and within history there will be different options such as modern (WW2), Victorian era or Say the Tudors and Stuarts.

In terms of grammar school students, it does happen occasionally but is rare. There are some that don't get in to the grammar's sixth form, others I have seen wanted to go mixed sex for sixth form or didn't want the travel. However, the college has several going off to Oxbridge every year, so is academically sound too.

No. My DB who is incredibly clever but hated school didn’t bother with 6th form. Went to college and got his A levels, all A * and then went to uni and got a 1st class degree. From what he said it was not as uncommon as you’d think. I’m far less academic than her and stayed in 6th form and got my a levels but definitely did not do as well as her.
The norm is to stay in school if your academic but some kids will choose to go to college for social reasons or because there career goals are better suited to college.

I hated school and wasn't considered clever enough for sixth form so went to local Further Ed college where I did more career based A levels. I was much happier at the college that catered to adult learning with mature students alongside the teens, rather than the school where you were treated as a child. It changed my whole perspective on learning and I went on to get a PhD so don't think it matters much.

I think the college system in Hants has a lot going for it. Primarily that pupils have to make an active choice as to what they want to study, they can't passively stay at school because they are too scared of change. It is also a step towards independence which will help transition to adulthood / university.

On the down side not all students are ready for the independence, and pastoral care can be less good than at schools. There is also an issue with getting guidance for some students as the school knows the students but not the courses, and the colleges know the courses but not the applying student.

No, because the colleges do ALevels too.

I thought that sixth form is less hands on. My son wasn't able to work more than one day while at sixth form. Did lots of work but not much life skills.

Daughter doing alevels at college, needs to navigate buses and things and work 3 days a week. Just more life experience.

It seems like a good idea. In my area you could change schools at sixth form, my sister did that.

I live in South Hants. Schools don't have 6th forms.

Peter Symonds college in Winchester takes around 2000 pupils per year. This college is primarily A levels. You want to study any combination of A levels however weird? They can almost certainly timetable it.

There are maybe 3 other colleges offering good range of A levels within reach.
Then there are 2-4 colleges offering various standard vocational courses.
My DD is at the agricultural college.

There is pretty much nothing you can't study within a 1hr door to door bus, or a 30min direct drive.

oh I had enough of school by GCSE so left. Spent a year working. I then went and did an apprenticeship and went to university and now earn well with a great job :) I have plenty of prospects and plan to do more study. I’m not less/more intelligent than those that did either, just different priorities. It depends on what you want to do. A-levels straight to uni? Go for it. College and/or apprenticeship fabulous! There’s so much choice. There no need to label each other as less intelligent.

The sixth form college my son attends offers about 30 different A levels and has about 2500 students. His secondary school didn’t have a sixth form but some schools in the area do.

I have to say, I didn't actually know that a college just for sixth form was a thing. I thought it was an expression people were using. We didn't have any in our area, it was school or FE college or work.

I can't picture how they work, are they tiny? Or do schools in those areas tend not to offer A Levels so they have more intake? Do you have more choice of subjects due to it being dedicated?

"however well 6FC actually do in terms of outcomes) whilst pretty much all of the lower attainers go to college, it seems that on a national scale and taking the country as a whole (instead of focusing on individual areas which often don’t have school 6th forms anyway) the assertion is actually broadly right still??"

I honestly don't think you can make any national generalisations, because the local picture is too varied.

In areas where everyone leaves school at 16 (Hampshire for example) most bright students will go onto college.

In other areas, it's harder to get into some elite sixth form colleges than it is to stay on at the school sixth form (hills road being an example, although you'd have to be outside of the CAP)

Some areas are now developing the elite private sixth form colleges... so again, these can take from other independent schools.

Where I live, it depends on the school. For example, at my small school sixth form all the brighter ones left (mostly to sixth form college, some to other sixth forms), the weakest got apprenticeships or went into FE, and the weaker ones stayed on at the sixth form.

I don't think you can make a generalisation as the national picture is too mixed, as have been seen on this thread.

Mommandme, interesting stuff.

Yes, I see the point about teacher in 6FC being totally focused on teaching their A Level subjects and therefore having lots of expertise in getting people through A Levels.

The study you mention talks about adding value and also about higher ability students. I wonder though what proportion of high ability students from the whole cohort 6FC attract. The question isn’t so much as about what they deliver and outcomes (although of course important) but the OP asked about where people go. You mention there being 50 6FC in the organisation that has most of them together, and I know they are often quite large, but I wonder overall what proportion of 16-19s are in them and what proportion of those with prior high attainment at GCSE.

Much of the focus has been on high attainers and where they went. Funnily everyone who is talking about their own experience as sixth formers (often many moons ago) or that of their kids is of the high ability bracket and not the lower ability! Key Q is where do the lower ability students go? You mention more working class background children in FE and tertiary, and although that of course doesn’t fully equate to lower prior attainment, there will be links with more from working class background having lower attainment at GCSE than those from middle class backgrounds. Lower ability students tend to go for vocational courses. The 6FC I know of, which are successful at A Level, also offer a range of BtEC and other vocational stuff too. So they are attracting BOTH the bright orioles attainers to their A Level programmes and ALSO the lower attainers. Schools on the other hand with purely an A Level programme or possibly an espxtremely small alternative offering tend to lose their lower attainers at 16. So going back to the overall Q - if schools (and especially the Grammarns and Independnet schools tend to hold onto their bright students and across the full cohort there some kind of mix (although still no suggestion that as many of the able prior attainers go to college compared to schools - however well 6FC actually do in terms of outcomes) whilst pretty much all of the lower attainers go to college, it seems that on a national scale and taking the country as a whole (instead of focusing on individual areas which often don’t have school 6th forms anyway) the assertion is actually broadly right still??

IME A Levels were for those who wanted to go and do an academic type degree whereas I went to college because I wanted to do art. But I was intelligent with good marks at school. Less to do with intelligence and more what you want to do after 18. There's probably an overlap of course. But no, I don't think college is a second rate option. They do tend to offer more vocational courses although mine did a levels as well.

My school didn't have a 6th form. We all went to college whether we were doing A levels, GNVQs or BTECs.

I didn't go to 6th form at my ultra academic all girls grammar school, and instead went to a performing arts school for college and did my BTec. This was 1996-1998.

I'm smart as fuck, but 6th form couldn't offer me anything close to what I wanted to do.

A college that aligned with my career goals helped shape me. I felt like an adult, recognized teaching methods that helped me excel and studied my arse off.

I think the views of intelligence and education have changed given the standard Victorian education does not, in any way, help shape humans to work in a modern society.