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Further education

You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum.

Is it true that clever people go to 6th form and people who aren't go to college

469 replies

thistimeiknowitsforreal · 21/06/2022 21:08

Evening all,

It was always drummed into me that after GCSE`s that if you are intelligent you went to or stayed at school and went to 6th form depending on your previous circumstances.

But if you weren't good enough you went to college instead.

Whats your experience in this area ?

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 18/07/2022 20:02

No, it's true.
Look at the academic qualifications needed to do Maths, FM and Physics at A level, v. the qualifications required to enter most L3 Extended Diploma BTECs.

I am sure that to do well at Hair & Beauty you need many skills but ability to do high level maths isn't one of them.

I have absolutely nothing against BTECs nor colleges. But to try to pretend that all courses are suitable for all flies in the face of their entry requirements. Some courses should only be attempted by more academic kids. Just like some courses should only be attempted by more sporty kids, or those with good fine motor skills, or those with good people or caring skills. However in fact the courses in my latter sentence tend not to check those skills as a prerequisite for entry, relying instead on the student to select something suitable.

thistimeiknowitsforreal · 18/07/2022 19:53

TeenDivided · 18/07/2022 17:37

And before anyone jumps on me, some BTECs are clearly more academically challenging than others. But all BTECs are challenging in their own way and to get Distinction* you have to have a number of analytical skills and work hard solidly through the course.

Very true they are difficult they don`t just hand them out

OP posts:
thistimeiknowitsforreal · 18/07/2022 19:52

TeenDivided · 18/07/2022 17:30

There's a difference between skilled and academically difficult.
Academically minded people often (not always) want a career that challenges their brain.

I could in theory have done hair & beauty (though as I have no interest in either I wouldn't have been very good long term), most hair & beauty BTEC students couldn't have done my degree (maths).

That`s abit of a snobbish attitude isn't it ?

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 18/07/2022 17:37

And before anyone jumps on me, some BTECs are clearly more academically challenging than others. But all BTECs are challenging in their own way and to get Distinction* you have to have a number of analytical skills and work hard solidly through the course.

TeenDivided · 18/07/2022 17:32

Though that of course is discussing A levels v vocational BTECs.
You asked 6th form v college, which is the same question in some areas, but irrelevant in all-college areas such as Hants as discussed earlier.

TeenDivided · 18/07/2022 17:30

There's a difference between skilled and academically difficult.
Academically minded people often (not always) want a career that challenges their brain.

I could in theory have done hair & beauty (though as I have no interest in either I wouldn't have been very good long term), most hair & beauty BTEC students couldn't have done my degree (maths).

thistimeiknowitsforreal · 18/07/2022 16:33

Fairislefandango · 18/07/2022 16:27

Whereas someone who studied cooking or hair at college not looked at being smart ?

Because the students who go down those routes are usually the ones who don't do so well at academic school work. That obviously doesn't mean that no bright kids ever choose those career paths, but it's certainly not the norm.

Why not they are both skilled careers ?

OP posts:
Fairislefandango · 18/07/2022 16:27

Whereas someone who studied cooking or hair at college not looked at being smart ?

Because the students who go down those routes are usually the ones who don't do so well at academic school work. That obviously doesn't mean that no bright kids ever choose those career paths, but it's certainly not the norm.

ShanghaiDiva · 18/07/2022 16:21

Exeter has no state schools with sixth forms so it’s the college (rated outstanding by ofsted)or pay to attend a selective independent.

thistimeiknowitsforreal · 18/07/2022 16:19

stayathomegardener · 18/07/2022 12:59

In my experience academic students with good memory recall go to 6th form because that is how they are assessed.

Plenty of non academic but clever students go to college.

Why not go out of their comfort zone ?

OP posts:
thistimeiknowitsforreal · 18/07/2022 16:12

RuthW · 18/07/2022 12:46

Yes I think that's true here

Really ? tell me more

OP posts:
thistimeiknowitsforreal · 18/07/2022 16:09

thinking123 · 18/07/2022 12:41

Not all schools have 6th forms. Sounds nonsense to me

How so ?

OP posts:
stayathomegardener · 18/07/2022 12:59

In my experience academic students with good memory recall go to 6th form because that is how they are assessed.

Plenty of non academic but clever students go to college.

RuthW · 18/07/2022 12:46

Yes I think that's true here

thinking123 · 18/07/2022 12:41

Not all schools have 6th forms. Sounds nonsense to me

Comefromaway · 18/07/2022 12:34

Daughter got A* A in her two A levels so she is highly capable.

Comefromaway · 18/07/2022 12:33

My daughter who is highly academic did do A levels but only two as she also studied a theatre diploma. My son is being encouraged to follow his passions with music technology. They both started off at academically selective private school but we moved them when it became clear that approach to education was not the best one for them. My brother is encouraging his very practically minded son towards a trade apprentiship rather than staying on at 6th form and his daughter who is academic but suffers anxiety was encouraged to do a mix of a level and btec subjects to suit her strengths and weaknesses.

thistimeiknowitsforreal · 18/07/2022 11:50

Comefromaway · 17/07/2022 14:31

In that case then why don`t more say middle class parents encourage their kids to do something practical ?

some of us do.

Tell me more !!! i`m on edge ?

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 17/07/2022 14:31

In that case then why don`t more say middle class parents encourage their kids to do something practical ?

some of us do.

myuterusistryingtokillme · 17/07/2022 12:18

thistimeiknowitsforreal · 26/06/2022 00:40

Has anyone ever gone from a selective grammar school to college ?

I did. I. HATED my school, it was stuffy and bitchy and 6th form still treated students like children (strict dress codes, having to be on site all day even during free periods etc) so I chose to go to college to get away from all that and be treated like an adult. Went from college to RG uni, got 2:1 in my degree and then went on to do my Masters. Am now in one of those higher earning jobs that everyone hates on Mumsnet.

It's all bollocks OP, it may have been like that in the 80s but people now make choices not to stay on at 6th form for various reasons, it's got nothing at all to do with intelligence

thistimeiknowitsforreal · 17/07/2022 11:21

WombatChocolate · 17/07/2022 08:16

It isn’t necessarily that people doing vocational qualifications aren’t ‘smart’. Broadly speaking, academic qualifications such as A Levels have higher GCSE entry requirements. Those with higher GCSEs have traditionally and continue to mostly go onto academic qualifications such as A Levels or IB. Some with high academic qualifications have always chosen vocational post-16 education, but most haven’t and broadly speaking, those doing the vocational route have less strong GCSEs. Some will usually be re-taking English or Maths GCSE alongside their vocational qualification.

’Smart’ is usually seen in academic terms and the measurable method is GCSE results. Of course you can say ‘smart’ isn’t always reflected in that form. Lots choosing something vocational might be smart in other ways that are equally valid. But our society continues to place high value on academic measurable qualifications. To get onto the most competitive courses at 6th Form level in the most sought after places, higher GCSEs are required, and then to get into the most sought after courses in the most highly regarded universities, high A Levels are required. To get places on the most sought after post-grad training schemes in the most highly paid industries, top GCSEs, A Levels and degrees from top institutions are required.

However, success and ultimately happiness in life can be achieved through lots of routes. There are always people on MN who say they have top academic qualifications but have never had a successful career or enjoyed what they do. And there are always those who have become incredibly successful through different routes.

In that case then why don`t more say middle class parents encourage their kids to do something practical ?

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 17/07/2022 08:16

It isn’t necessarily that people doing vocational qualifications aren’t ‘smart’. Broadly speaking, academic qualifications such as A Levels have higher GCSE entry requirements. Those with higher GCSEs have traditionally and continue to mostly go onto academic qualifications such as A Levels or IB. Some with high academic qualifications have always chosen vocational post-16 education, but most haven’t and broadly speaking, those doing the vocational route have less strong GCSEs. Some will usually be re-taking English or Maths GCSE alongside their vocational qualification.

’Smart’ is usually seen in academic terms and the measurable method is GCSE results. Of course you can say ‘smart’ isn’t always reflected in that form. Lots choosing something vocational might be smart in other ways that are equally valid. But our society continues to place high value on academic measurable qualifications. To get onto the most competitive courses at 6th Form level in the most sought after places, higher GCSEs are required, and then to get into the most sought after courses in the most highly regarded universities, high A Levels are required. To get places on the most sought after post-grad training schemes in the most highly paid industries, top GCSEs, A Levels and degrees from top institutions are required.

However, success and ultimately happiness in life can be achieved through lots of routes. There are always people on MN who say they have top academic qualifications but have never had a successful career or enjoyed what they do. And there are always those who have become incredibly successful through different routes.

thistimeiknowitsforreal · 16/07/2022 23:56

Why are people who do/did A levels always looked at as being smarter ?

Whereas someone who studied cooking or hair at college not looked at being smart ?

OP posts:
thistimeiknowitsforreal · 28/06/2022 23:37

Maby it isn't the case any more

OP posts:
Glittertwins · 28/06/2022 18:39

No. My sixth form college did not offer the A Levels that the HE college did.

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