Is it true that clever people go to 6th form and people who aren't go to college

Of course it's not true that only less academic kids go to college. But, at the overall level, there's a higher proportion of academic kids in sixth forms compared to colleges. Anecdotal examples won't really change that

Not if you live somewhere where the education system doesn’t have school sixth forms. Which many, many places in the UK do not. There seems to be disbelief that in some areas, all pupils of all abilities go to sixth form college, because schools don’t run past age 16. It’s really bizarre that you and other posters seem unable to comprehend this.

I’d say again, that just because you, as a a clever person, or kids you know who are clever went to college, doesn’t mean the statement isn’t true.

I agree. Of course it's not true that only less academic kids go to college. But, at the overall level, there's a higher proportion of academic kids in sixth forms compared to colleges. Anecdotal examples won't really change that.

The kids I know currently at sixth form college went to private schools but felt like a square peg in a round hole. They didn't like the discipline and lack of freedom, and some were a bit disruptive as a result. They're flourishing in college as they're choosing to be there and prefer the less rigid set-up and greater personal freedom.

Around here you havs to go to the next town for a school with a 6th form, we have two large colleges though , that offer a wide range incl a levels
Mine both went to college doing btechs , ds1 is off to uni on his supposedly less clever btech

I’d say again, that just because you, as a a clever person, or kids you know who are clever went to college, doesn’t mean the statement isn’t true.

On a broad scale across the whole country, I would say it is true and that those who are higher achievers at GCSE are more likely to be found in school than college. This won’t apply to all areas because some don’t really have sixth forms in schools and provision differs a lot. Given 20% of sixth formers are in private education and almost all of that is in schools, straight off, you’ve got a good chunk in schools. Of course lots of high achievers go to college too. Some prefer the idea of college, some find more choice of subject at college and in some areas it’s college or nothing. But where there are sixth forms in schools, those staying tend to be more academic. It’s because schools often focus wholly or mostly on A Levels. Those doing vocational qualifications, who broadly across the whole cohort tend to have lower GCSE grades, tend to go to college. And again, I’m not saying clever students never do vocational qualifications or those who do them don’t go onto be hugely successful.

So, given vocational qualifications tend to be college based, most of those with a lower GCSE profile go there. There are far more options. In itself, this means there is an imbalance in terms of where those with higher and lower prior attainment end up. Those with higher attainment are more spread between schools and colleges. Those with lower attainment are more concentrated.

Earlier in this thread I put in a link which showed some evidence of prior attainment and where students studied. It is true that schools have a higher or operation of their students with higher attainment, but this doesn’t mean everyone who goes to college has lower attainment or doesn’t do well. Of course students with all grade 9s go to college and some get all A* at A Levels and go onto Oxbridge etc. Look too, though at where those at Oxbridge and RG unis did their sixth form educations. Again, both sixth form colleges and schools send students, but lots are coming from the more traditional school route.

My 6th form didn't offer the courses I wanted to do so I went to college. Went on to do a BSc, MSc and PhD so I disagree with your theory.

When I was at school in the 90's people who got good enough GCSE's stayed on at school and those that didn't went to college to do more vocational stuff. Now at ds's school it's the same I'd say. Both schools were considered to be very good schools so parents wanted their kids to stay on there. If you're at a good school I'm not sure why you would go elsewhere to do A-levels.

in your area, do the colleges offer a full range of A levels, or only vocational?

Having just had a look, they offer A levels in addition to vocational qualifications.

My area probably isn't typical though, it's a high income demographic with lots of people working in professional services in London. I suspect most parents would encourage their kids to stay on for school sixth forms, along with some fairly sharp elbowed tutoring to improve the odds of them getting the grades.

No judgement either way but it's the way it works here in reality. The kids I know who have found GCSEs a struggle academically are really enjoying college so it's been a good choice for them.

@lot123 in your area, do the colleges offer a full range of A levels, or only vocational?

In all honesty, it's true in our area.

But we have a number of high performing state and private schools so those who don't get high enough grades to qualify for sixth form then go to the colleges. Nothing wrong with that and some prefer the more vocational options.

OP, are you going to engage at all with the detail discussions on this thread, or just keep on with 1 line responses? What did you think of the government report I linked to up thread? What were you thinking 'college' covered when you started this thread? What's the backstory to you asking?

I think, as has been said before, that people have a different perception of what is meant by 'college'. It is very area dependent.

• In the 'old days' grammar schools had 6th forms where (clever) grammar pupils stayed for A levels, and those at the secondary modern left for work or went to college to do a vocational course (unless they transferred to grammar).


• In some areas these days e.g. Hants there are no 6th forms in schools at all, so all pupils go to 'college' whether doing A levels or vocational courses


• Some areas have 6th forms in some schools as well as colleges offering A levels and vocational courses. In some of these schools they may be able to be highly selective about the pupils they take, so set high entrance grades. This could lead to a perception that less able pupils wanting to do A levels go to college for them (inferring they couldn't get the grades to stay on) whereas in fact for reasons discussed in this thread, many brighter pupils these days make an active choice for college.


• There is no getting away from the fact that from a purely academic point of view, some less academic pupils can achieve well in BTECs whereas they would have done poorly at A level.

DS1 went to 6th form, left after A levels. DS2 went to college and is now studying medicine at uni. So your theory is a bit rubbish!

Why can`t not so academic kids have a go at academic subjects ? Bit short sighted ?

Of course they can if they really want to, but success rates are not high.
This is a bit old now, as it references old GCSE grades, but you still might find it interesting: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/610077/Progression_from_GCSE_to_A_level_-_Comparative_Progression_Analysis_as_a_new_approach_to_investigating_inter-subject_comparability.pdf
There is another report somewhere with loads more graphs on direct subject comparison but I didn't find it on my quick search.

Ultimately, if you are only just passing your GCSEs, your chance of success at even harder levels will be lower.
It is better probably to succeed (e.g. MMM or better) at a vocational course than get very low grade A levels.

(But again that isn't a college v school issue as such, given that in lots of areas you can do A levels at college.)

I thought it was quite sad to stay on at school. 6th form college was much more exciting! I have a degree & run an organisation now. So I'm not thick.

@thistimeiknowitsforreal he loves the outdoors and hates being stuck at a computer (which is what he’s ended up doing and made his peace with now) but he says if he had his time again he’d have done something that could have led him to a career maybe in Estate management or tree surgery. Unfortunately his parents had the attitude that unless you did A Levels you weren’t going to amount to much, which I would hope is an outdated attitude…

I was told by my sixth form that I shouldn’t study an A Level subject unless I got a B at GCSE in that subject. I think that’s good advice as I managed to persuade them to let me do a subject that I got a C in at GCSE and although I passed, it wasn’t a very high pass compared to my other two.

DH got mostly Cs at GCSEs, a few Bs. He is very intelligent but not so good at exams. He didn’t get good enough grades to get into his school’s sixth form but was convinced by his parents to do A Levels at the local college when he really should have done something more vocational/coursework based. He failed all his A Levels.

He’s done well in life though and despite the fact I passed all my A Levels, he is way more intelligent than me!

When I was at sixth form my sixth form only required 5 C’s which you don’t exactly have to be clever to get

An academic sporty kid who is kind and caring and has good motor skills and good people skills could do any course that took their fancy. They shouldn't be pushed into doing A levels if they don't want to.
A less academic kid may be better served by an L3 Extended Diploma and coming out with say MMM rather than attempting A levels and coming out with DEE.