A-levels for Medicine

Just a word of caution OP. I did really well at GCSE level and decided I wanted to be a vet. So I chose Chemistry, Biology and Physics A Level. My teachers warned me that these subjects together would be really tough going and I ignored them. I really struggled with them and ended up doing really badly. Individually they re really hard subjects. I ended up having to drop physics and took another non-science subject at AS level to do a science related degree at a rubbish uni. I’m not saying your daughter will struggle like I did and A Levels may be different to when I did them 20+ years ago but it’s worth considering how she will cope with these subjects although I’m sure you have already.

My school required anyone studying A-level science but not maths (a fair few, mainly medics) to do "some" "maths for scientists". DH's school didn't (he's a vet, Cambridge grad) didn't and he did find some of the maths tough - but his dad (Science PhD) tutored him through it.

Between us (I have A-level maths but only 1 stats module) we fought our way to vaguely understanding confidence limits and the more complicated stats involved in evidence based medicine.

College clearly have no clue... however I'd be concerned that their teaching of some of the mathsy bits of science in the science subjects might be a bit iffy if they're assuming that all the students do maths as well!

@Clovie - It might be useful for your daughter to contact admissions at one or two of the medical schools she will want to apply to and ask them to confirm that having biology, chemistry & history A-Levels is acceptable and won't put her at a disadvantage, then show the replies to college.

One thing the college might be thinking is that having all the potential medics doing the same subjects allows them to put them on a 3- or 4-day timetable so they can have full days off-timetable to do "work experience", do UCAT prep, attend interviews, etc. However, that's not what they said in the e-mail. Also, that can't be allowed to take priority over ensuring students are taking A-Levels they are most likely to succeed in.

If she were doing A-Level physics (or possibly economics) I would understand the strong recommendation to do maths as well. I can't see why someone with an 8 or 9 in GCSE maths would need to do A-Level maths to support biology and chemistry. We have loads of medical students who have done A-Level biology & chemistry without maths.

Good for you! 👍 I hope she enjoys the course.

Should have added that chemistry is not required by Anglia Ruskin, East Anglia, Keele, Kent & Medway, Lancaster, Leeds, Leicester, Manchester, Newcastle, Plymouth, QMUL (Bart's), Sheffield, Southampton or Sunderland.

It is always advisable to take chemistry to keep a broad range of options open, but it's not absolutely essential.

I've been looking into this and for medicine Chemistry is the only essential one, but Maths is an advantage if you want to apply to Cambridge and a few other universities, and biology is not essential but preferable for a few.

Biology is essential for Aston, Birmingham, Brighton & Sussex, Cardiff, Edge Hill, Exeter, Hull York, Imperial, King's, Lincoln, Nottingham, Plymouth, Southampton, St George's and UCL.

Will people please stop making stuff up? You might cause a young person to make a decision that seriously limits their options.

www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2877/entry-requirements-document-2022-digital.pdf

I’m a doctor although went to uni in 1999 so things have obv changed. Chemistry is essential. Out of those I’d say Chemistry, Biology and Maths although if she can manage 4, having interests outside of the usual stuff can only be a good thing for applications. I did RE for my 4th.

Some people on here have no clue. Studying Maths will help to develop better logical thinking skills, which are useful for UCAT and BMAT. There are some mathematical elements in those as well. I would advise Maths over History every time.

I've been looking into this and for medicine Chemistry is the only essential one, but Maths is an advantage if you want to apply to Cambridge and a few other universities, and biology is not essential but preferable for a few. History won't be much help but it won't exclude you from applying as long you have high grades in it. You need a minimum of AAA.

Apologies. I managed to miss that there were 2 other pages to this thread so thought I was commenting fairly near the beginning when you were getting incorrect advice. 🤦. Apologies for repeating the same things as many others!

There is a lot of misinformation on here.
Many universities require biology, quite a lot require biology or chemistry, a few require both.
A couple of colleges at Cambridge require 3 sciences.
NOWHERE else requires 3 sciences and neither do they prioritise 3 sciences.
Newcastle doesn't require any sciences at all.
She should not do 4 A levels in my view. It's unnecessarily hard work and there is always the (very small) risk that she might get an offer based on 4 A levels.
Even with 8s and 9s at GCSEs, A levels are a step up and she'll have to work hard to get the As and A*s for medicine.
I would suggest she does chemistry and biology plus whichever of the others she either prefers significantly or whichever of the others she will find it easiest to get a good grade in.
The reality is that, if she meets the criteria for interview (which are usually predicted grades plus - and this is usually weighted much higher - the score in UCAT or BMAT), then she'll get an interview. If she doesn't she won't. Her 3rd subject will not impact on that one iota (there is almost nothing subjective about interview offers for medicine, for all bar a couple of unis).
Maths might help her with the UCAT. But if she's very academic then she probably doesn't need that help.
Don't do it to "show she's more rounded" because that implies a subjectivity to this process that simply doesn't exist. But if she loves history it won't disadvantage her in the slightest to have done that over maths.
Essays are important in medical school and she will learn useful skills in history (another option is to do a history of medicine type EPQ if they are on offer in her school?).
No disrespect to teachers here or in schools but I've spent hours and hours researching all this in order to help local schools improve their application process and things change every year. What I've just said applies to this next cohort - another year could bring a whole lot of new changes.
None of the teachers I know have the time to keep up with any of this (and they don't need to) but take any advice with a massive pinch of salt and check for yourselves.

Whilst Chemistry Biology and Maths are often a combination for medicine applications Chemistry, Biology and another are also fine too. Indeed this year one of our medic offer holders (slective sixth form) and now about to start his degree has Chemistry, Biology and History with his History being an A predicted grade which allowed him to apply to AAA courses.

If she likes it and is likely to get a better grade or it will bring her more joy go for history. But chemistry and biology leaves more medical schools open to her.

The original post asked for recommendations, and I was simply offering mine given that this is my ACTUAL job. I hope you have a lovely evening!

It is my actual job, too, as a medicine admissions tutor and someone who teaches year 1-3 medical students as well as advising sixth-formers in several schools & colleges about medicine applications. I apologise for the tone of my previous message. I - in common with all medicine admissions tutors - get frustrated when students receive advice that leads them to make poor choices. The A-Level subject requirements for medicine courses are very clearly stated, and they are genuine: there is not a hidden process favouring applicants who choose biology, chemistry & maths over those with other combinations. As long as they are meeting the stated requirements, students should select the A-Levels for which they will have the greatest motivation and the highest probability of obtaining A or A* grades.

OP, please refer to the Medical Schools Council entry requirements booklet.

Start all 4, see what the workload is like! Science workload is fairly definite with actual answers at A-level level. If she can deem an essay done (good skill for Oxford) the workload should

Maths helps with sciences so it's not as much work as 4 essay type subjects and good prep for Oxford anyway.

Yeah, I found my biology and chemistry really useful, but should have done maths with stats instead of pure maths. Would have been so useful through med school, and later.

Things that are actually useful when you are doing medicine: the statistics bit of Maths A Level. Plus a small bit of chemistry.

Sadly I did mechanics and not stats and so this bit of med school (and subsequent research) was a nightmare. Those of us who hadn't done it were at a massive disadvantage compared to those who had done it at A level who clearly found it a doddle.

Stats also turns up in Biology A level and I didn't understand it there either

Definitely Maths, Biology and Chemistry. She can always go back to History later in life if she loves it.

My daughter found that doing things like helping at Riding for the Disabled and volunteering at a care home were well thought of.

Consultants are a great link for work experience/talks, etc but don't forget it could have been 20+ years since they were applying to medical school. It was a very different situation then. Contact the schools directly. 😊

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/04/encourage-students-with-a-humanities-background-to-become-doctors/

Medical schools want diversity in their applicants but most are being advised incorrectly and coming through with Biology/Chemistry/Maths when it's just not necessary.

Also just coming back to this thread
Oldest did maths but wished they hadn’t and had done history instead he’s now intercalating with an masters in medical ethics and law and says that essay writing skills greatly assist.
Youngest did A level PE as third A level as from our experience with sibling we decided on the third A level to be one he enjoyed and would do well in (which did did) rather than forcing the 3 sciences / 2 science plus maths scenario,
Both got good A levels and got into good med schools.
However it is much much more than A levels and I strongly suspect there will be less and less focus if recent history repeats itself.
She will need good work experience - try writing to your nearest hospital to find out if they do a clinical experience week, mine did. This wasn’t widely publicised and a number of the doctors were surprised they didn’t come from a family with doctors in. Volunteering - it’s got to be more than the usual DoE, mine was asked to write a summary of what they did and how it impacted them as a pre interview process.
Obviously UK cat /B mat there are courses in most big cities and recommend at least one.
Interview - sometimes schools will put on mock interviews but there are also private providers who do this.