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Further education

You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum.

Original poster

A levels or apprenticeship

135 replies

Whatnextcrazyworld · 27/07/2021 09:37

DS has just finished Year 11 at a private school where he is predicted 7s and 8s in his GCSEs. He hasn't particularly enjoyed the last two years and has previously said that he's not keen on doing A levels. I've been open to looking at apprenticeships but am being told that it would be a big mistake not to do A levels. DS isn't interested in going to uni but has "accepted" that he will stay on for sixth form - I'm concerned that he's agreed to this for the wrong reasons. [We've discussed going to college for a change but he's clear that he'd rather stay at his current school if he does study A levels.]

My family are insistent that all employers will expect A levels and that they would think it very odd that a pupil from an independent school would not have A levels. It's very long time since my husband and I went to school and the world is totally different to when we started work.

If you have experience of going straight to an apprenticeship after GCSEs, can you clarify whether you can do to a Level 3 (which I understand is equivalent to two A levels) or are most of them Level 2 at age 16.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whatnextcrazyworld · 28/07/2021 10:36

I'd like to say a massive THANK YOU to everyone who has commented on this thread.

DS is away for a couple of days but I will show him and DH this thread so that they can each hear both sides of the argument - and the other suggestions that various posters have made.

OP posts:
notacooldad · 28/07/2021 10:35

That wont make them successful. Finding their niche in life will
Oops lost my train of thought there!

Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:34

@notacooldad

*notacooldad

I don't know a single teen who dropped out of A levels unless they had a MH issue.
Mine did and he didn't have MH issues. Best thing he did. It wasnt for him.

That's great if he's now doing well
He is. I've said to the OP in an update what he is up to. I was surprised he dropped out but then I could see that he was becoming increasingly unhappy. To me it wasnt worth it. He tried to carry on because he didn't want to let me or his dad down. However we encouraged him to be true to himself. He wanted to work and he isnt a dosser who stays in his room on a x box. He has a good work ethic and that has helped.

I encouraged one of mine to do a BTEC alongside 2 "easier" A levels. She really enjoyed the BTEC and did really well in it. Also might be an option for the OP's ds? There's a hospitality one.
notacooldad · 28/07/2021 10:34

Engineering apprenticeships are not for everyone Engineering is not for everyone

No one said they were. 🤔

TeenMinusTests · 28/07/2021 10:34

Honestly, the more you write the more I think your DS is correct.
He's chosen the A levels to be 'not GCSEs', he's not really interested in them.
A bright lad, doing an apprenticeship for a good company who indicate they are in it for the long haul, could go far.
If it all goes wrong, he can do an access course and uni later.

(DH and I have degrees in STEM subjects, but neither DD1 nor DD2 are that academic. DD1 did Travel & Tourism, failed nursery apprenticeship (hurt back) and then worked for a hotel pre-pandemic, DD2 is about to start a BTEC at college).

Original poster
Whatnextcrazyworld · 28/07/2021 10:34

We wanted them to do uni but it is not about our hope's and dreams. That wont make them successful. Finding their niche in life will. I totally agree!

Bryony: he says if he does A levels he wants to stay at his current school because he knows everyone and it's local. There are some decent colleges around but he's clear on this issue.

OP posts:
notacooldad · 28/07/2021 10:33

*notacooldad

I don't know a single teen who dropped out of A levels unless they had a MH issue.
Mine did and he didn't have MH issues. Best thing he did. It wasnt for him.

That's great if he's now doing well
He is. I've said to the OP in an update what he is up to. I was surprised he dropped out but then I could see that he was becoming increasingly unhappy. To me it wasnt worth it. He tried to carry on because he didn't want to let me or his dad down. However we encouraged him to be true to himself. He wanted to work and he isnt a dosser who stays in his room on a x box. He has a good work ethic and that has helped.

Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:29

Engineering apprenticeships are not for everyone. Engineering is not for everyone.

I wish this could be a sticky on the top of every single higher education thread

Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:28

Could he have moved to a local college?

notacooldad · 28/07/2021 10:28

Do you mind telling me what type of apprenticeships your sons are doing please?
Both sons did different types of engineering to the other.
The courses suited them.
As I said ds1's employer is putting him through his degree and he has picked up loads of industry qualifications on the way that are transferable should he change jobs. Ds2 will have a degree by the end of his apprenticeship. He has already got other qualifications as he progresses through his apprenticeship. Ds2 was the more academic of the two and very intelligent. He got several GCSE's a year early and was A* and As for everything except ironically engineering!!

We wanted them to do uni but it is not about our hope's and dreams. That wont make them successful. Finding their niche in life will.

Original poster
Whatnextcrazyworld · 28/07/2021 10:27

@DaftVader42

Just to add, apparently research shows working more than 12 hours per week does affect your A level grades. Something to bear in mind …

In non selective state schools, 6th forms tend to be very different from the lower school (if they only offer A levels), because the cohort of pupils change so much. Not sure whether that would be true at an independent…

Thank you for that.

At his school only a handful from his cohort are moving to other schools or colleges for A levels. At the same time the school is accepting a significant number from other schools so the year group will end up being bigger than it was for the previous 5 years - although I don't imagine it really matters. I'm sure the school has good/excellent teachers at A level but it still concerns me that he doesn't really want to be there any more.

OP posts:
Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:26

All three will be very hard work.

Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:25

They are interesting A levels. Psychology is really maths based and a science. RE deonds how it's taught. Can be good. One of mine got an A star in it but she was the academic one and worked very hard. Non academic got a C.

Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:23

@notacooldad

I don't know a single teen who dropped out of A levels unless they had a MH issue. Mine did and he didn't have MH issues. Best thing he did. It wasnt for him.
That's great if he's now doing well

I've nursed two non academic kids through A levels and they are both bloody glad they did them, so can see it from the other side.

Original poster
Whatnextcrazyworld · 28/07/2021 10:23

@TeenMinusTests

If he picked the 'right' A levels he could still feel he was working towards a hospitality career - would that help? e.g. Business A language

Yes, also check what kind of Level 3 - certificate, Diploma, Extended Diploma? (1, 2, 3 A level equivalent respectively).

The A levels he has selected are Religion & Philosophy (that he did at GCSE), Politics and Psychology and he is aware that there will be a lot of essay writing. He's not selected them because he's passionate about them but because he didn't want to continue with any other of his GCSE subjects so only had a few to choose from - the others being Business and Economics which he definitely doesn't want to do.
OP posts:
notacooldad · 28/07/2021 10:22

I don't know a single teen who dropped out of A levels unless they had a MH issue.
Mine did and he didn't have MH issues. Best thing he did. It wasnt for him.

Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:20

I don't know a single teen who dropped out of A levels unless they had a MH issue. Most local apprenticeships at 16+ are a load of shite.

I can't believe you are even considering this.

He's a clever boy! If he's not a hard worker then swerve traditional subjects and do business, PE/Food tech and one other (a language would be great he could then work abroad in hospitality)

DaftVader42 · 28/07/2021 10:20

Just to add, apparently research shows working more than 12 hours per week does affect your A level grades. Something to bear in mind …

In non selective state schools, 6th forms tend to be very different from the lower school (if they only offer A levels), because the cohort of pupils change so much. Not sure whether that would be true at an independent…

Original poster
Whatnextcrazyworld · 28/07/2021 10:18

@TeenMinusTests

The apprenticeship DS and I are considering is with a leading spa hotel; he'd get a level 3 at the end of the first two years and I'm told that they want to retain the apprentice and see them progress, possibly up to level 6 or 7.

That doesn't sound so bad.

Something he wants to do is better than being pushed into something he doesn't then not working / dropping out. He can always return to academics later.

(I can see your DH being disappointed though. You don't generally pay for private school expecting your DC to 'drop out' of the academic route at 16. Maybe reassure him there are routes back in if your DS changes his mind later.)

Thank you. DH refuses to be reassured about anything other than the A level route ... even though we are all in agreement that uni is probably not going to be the next step for DS.
OP posts:
Original poster
Whatnextcrazyworld · 28/07/2021 10:17

@notacooldad

Ds1 was adamant that he was going straight to work. I wanted him to go to college/ uni. However I can't/ wont force my choices on him. He went for an apprenticeship and it was hugely useful. He is 25 and the company are putting him through his degree. He us extremely well paid for our area and is doing well. Ds2 was very academic and had always talked about uni. He started his A levels and I noticed a quick decline in his personality and state of mind. We gave him the option to quit. It was like a weight had been lifted. He too got an apprenticeship and it was the absolute making of him.
It's these sort of experiences - and successes - that my DH just won't accept. Personally, I think "good for them" and I fully understand that the normal route, particularly in private schools, of doing A levels is not for every pupil.

Do you mind telling me what type of apprenticeships your sons are doing please?

OP posts:
TeenMinusTests · 28/07/2021 10:16

If he picked the 'right' A levels he could still feel he was working towards a hospitality career - would that help?
e.g.
Business
A language

Yes, also check what kind of Level 3 - certificate, Diploma, Extended Diploma? (1, 2, 3 A level equivalent respectively).

Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:14

He doesn't have to give up his interests. He can work in the pub during the holidays and while he's at school

DaftVader42 · 28/07/2021 10:14

I said hospitality apprenticeships can be crap at a school event, and got bollocked by the food science dept. But some absolutely are crap. But I guess it’s how the industry does it … which apprenticeship standard are they offering? What’s the qualification and the awarding body ?

What about T levels ? Done at college, level 3 (so equivalent to A levels) but with extended work experience included. Could do that with a part-time job at the spa ?

My part-time job when I was 16 offered me the world if I went full time. Of course they did. They would have got a really hardworking employee who loved her job. But if would have been a shit decision for me in the long run. And I could see that , despite the temptation.

Original poster
Whatnextcrazyworld · 28/07/2021 10:12

@titchy

I'm not convinced a L3 done in a year would be equivalent to 2 A levels or recognised widely enough for uni - certainly not for anything other than a hospitality degree. I suspect he'd have to go back to college and do an Access course if he wanted to go.

Your DH is right. He's too young and inexperienced to commit to this. He's got his first job, it's sociable and he's enjoying it and thinks it's be a laugh to do it permanently.

I hear you and you echo exactly what my DH says! You could well be right and I expect he's going to end up back at school but I feel for him because he believes he knows himself, his abilities and interests.
OP posts:
Bryonyshcmyony · 28/07/2021 10:12

Your DH is right. He's too young and inexperienced to commit to this. He's got his first job, it's sociable and he's enjoying it and thinks it's be a laugh to do it permanently

This. And I'm normally the first one in here to say people shouldn't always follow the Russell group path if it's not for them!