A levels or apprenticeship

Whatnextcrazyworld · 2021-07-27T08:37:33+00:00

DS has just finished Year 11 at a private school where he is predicted 7s and 8s in his GCSEs. He hasn't particularly enjoyed the last two years and has previously said that he's not keen on doing A levels. I've been open to looking at apprenticeships but am being told that it would be a big mistake not to do A levels. DS isn't interested in going to uni but has "accepted" that he will stay on for sixth form - I'm concerned that he's agreed to this for the wrong reasons. [We've discussed going to college for a change but he's clear that he'd rather stay at his current school if he does study A levels.] My family are insistent that all employers will expect A levels and that they would think it very odd that a pupil from an independent school would not have A levels. It's very long time since my husband and I went to school and the world is totally different to when we started work. If you have experience of going straight to an apprenticeship after GCSEs, can you clarify whether you can do to a Level 3 (which I understand is equivalent to two A levels) or are most of them Level 2 at age 16.

notacooldad · 10/08/2021 08:31

Are these degree level apprenticeships?Many of them are.
I work for a large county council which has embraced apprenticeships and we often see In the digital news update how well people are doing. Theres usually a photo of them in their gown once they have their degree and pictures of them promoting apprenticeship week once a year. The apprenticeships are not just for teens though. A r colleague aged 46 was sucessful on applying for a social work apprenticeship . She nearly had the offer withdrawn because she ocouldn't find her math and English GCSE results!

Original poster

Whatnextcrazyworld · 10/08/2021 08:21

igelkott Thank you. I need to remove the voice from his head (ie from school) that BTECs are second rate. I will certainly be showing him these responses and looking at what available that may suit him.

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Original poster

Whatnextcrazyworld · 10/08/2021 08:18

@Bellarime

My son gets his results today - BTECs in engineering and computer science and A level Geography. He’s known all along he doesn’t want to go to uni and during 6th form has realised a computer or engineering route isn’t for him. He started to dabble in stocks with his weekend job earnings, has help to buy ISA and is now starting a paraplanning apprenticeship next month with a view to a career as an IFA.

Bellarime Good for him and I hope your DS's results are what he's expecting. I do think that sometimes just "knowing" what you don't want to do, helps put you on the right path.

A degree is not important or necessary to everyone.

With regard to learning to invest, I suggested to my DH that he hands over the eye-watering £35K [that it will cost at the fee-paying school to acquire A levels over 2 years] and teach DS how to invest it wisely. I think DS would like this idea

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igelkott2021 · 10/08/2021 08:16

OP in your son's shoes I'd look at doing a BTEC or combination of single BTEC and A levels and then look for a degree level apprenticeship.

A level 2/3 apprenticeship sounds like it would be aiming too low, based on your ds' academics.

Bryonyshcmyony · 10/08/2021 07:18

Where I work apprenticeships are offered In IT, social care, graphic design, social work, sport and leisure and digital media

Are these degree level apprenticeships?

Bellarime · 10/08/2021 06:59

My son gets his results today - BTECs in engineering and computer science and A level Geography. He’s known all along he doesn’t want to go to uni and during 6th form has realised a computer or engineering route isn’t for him. He started to dabble in stocks with his weekend job earnings, has help to buy ISA and is now starting a paraplanning apprenticeship next month with a view to a career as an IFA.

bruffin · 10/08/2021 06:47

I forgot to say, i heard through work there is money being thrown at hospitality trade for training at the moment for apprenticeships as there is a shortage of staff

bruffin · 10/08/2021 06:24

I've never seen an apprenticeship which isn't finance or engineering based
Within dcs friends , there have been rug making and travel.these were not degree.
Ds did a level 4 apprenticeship at his current company, but that was after he started and made for him in pharmaceuticals and as previously said he is starting the degree apprenticeship in september

notacooldad · 09/08/2021 22:01

I've never seen an apprenticeship which isn't finance or engineering based
🤔

Where I work apprenticeships are offered In IT, social care, graphic design, social work, sport and leisure and digital media.
Business, Administrative & Accounting Apprenticeships are also offered.
My son's friend had an apprenticeship in IT at the large hospital. He is now out of is 'time' for a couple of years and is on an excellent wage and progressing well with his career. One of the girls in his peer group got an interior design apprenticeship a few years ago and has set up her own company just before Covid. Sure a bit of a set back but things ha e really picked up this summer.
Apprenticeships are not just about engineering or finance!

Original poster

Whatnextcrazyworld · 09/08/2021 21:34

[quote HappySonHappyMum]@Whatnextcrazyworld Happy to help - I had absolutely no experience of apprenticeships myself as I went to Uni many moons ago - so it was a steep learning curve that took many months to navigate - the whole process from application to offer took 6 months so it was a slow burn. But it was so worth it as I've never seen my DS so happy with the choice he made [/quote]
Wonderful! To be healthy and happy is the number one priority.

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HappySonHappyMum · 09/08/2021 21:27

@Whatnextcrazyworld Happy to help - I had absolutely no experience of apprenticeships myself as I went to Uni many moons ago - so it was a steep learning curve that took many months to navigate - the whole process from application to offer took 6 months so it was a slow burn. But it was so worth it as I've never seen my DS so happy with the choice he made

Original poster

Whatnextcrazyworld · 09/08/2021 20:36

SeasonFinale Thank you and yes, I understand what you are saying, but DS is very clear on not wanting to go to uni. But I'll keep an open mind!

We will start researching work experience opportunities this week.

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Whatnextcrazyworld · 09/08/2021 20:33

[quote notacooldad]OP
There is an article todays mail about apprenticeships v uni.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9876223/How-apprenticeships-leave-young-people-52-732-better-three-years.html[/quote]
notacooldad Yes, it's sobering reading, isn't it! My DS really wants to get out an earn a living - he is clear that he doesn't want the "uni experience", debt ... and, dare I say, the studying. If he's accepted as an apprentice in a decent organisation, I'm sure he'll be much more willing to gain qualifications because he'll be earning a living at the same time.

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Whatnextcrazyworld · 09/08/2021 20:27

@HappySonHappyMum

I can share my experience of apprenticeships after A level - my DS did an Extended BTEC and an A level. He didn't want to go to Uni - just wanted to get working so an apprenticeship seemed like a perfect fit for him. He applied for loads of apprenticeships at all levels, he was happy to start at the bottom and work up. Most of them got cancelled last year because of the pandemic but there were two that carried on through and the process was the most intense thing I've ever witnessed. Both apprenticeships had online assessments, formal interviews, open days, DBS checks, health and eye tests and each time people were getting whittled away. There were at least five rounds for each apprenticeship - it was like X factor! BUT he got offered a level 3 apprenticeship with a major UK company with a crappy wage (or so we thought) which he accepted. Turns out though that the company recruit and then choose the best people and then choose their pathway so he's actually on a degree apprenticeship with a wage that's 10K more than initially advertised. He's been there a year now - and they told the 36 apprentices they'd picked they they had been chosen from nearly 8000 applications - which is insane. Apprenticeships are a minefield though and you really need so do the work to find one. They start advertising about October so my advice is to make a list of companies you'd like to work for and send emails to find out when they open their applications as it's different for every company. Sixth forms focus on Uni applications as it's beneficial for their data so it really is down to you to find what you need to do. Choosing an apprenticeship pathway is the harder option than Uni tbh, nothing is signposted, no-one is going to help you, there's no fall back if you don't get offered a job as this is the hard reality of the world of work. Sorry for the ramble but I hope it helps. My DS fell on his feet - and was bloody lucky - I hope it works out for your DS.

HappySon THIS is just the sort of information I've been looking for! Thank you so much - very insightful and helpful. Your DS has done amazingly well and it's great to read that there are indeed some fabulous opportunities out there, even if competition is extremely tough. I'd rather go in with our eyes open and the "heads up" you've provided is extremely valuable.

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Bryonyshcmyony · 09/08/2021 18:40

I've never seen an apprenticeship which isn't finance or engineering based. If your skill is in humanities there is nothing. Of course therefore apprentices earn more than arts grads from low ranking polys.

notacooldad · 09/08/2021 18:37

OP
There is an article todays mail about apprenticeships v uni.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9876223/How-apprenticeships-leave-young-people-52-732-better-three-years.html

SeasonFinale · 09/08/2021 17:51

@Whatnextcrazyworld

Season You could be right that he'll change his mind but I very much doubt it as he's not enjoyed studying and says he wants to get out, be independent and earn his own living etc. And I absolutely don't want him changing his mind because "all his friends" are opting for the uni route.

It does now looks as if he'll stay on for sixth form but we'll keep a close eye on sensible alternatives for two years' time that will enable him to live a happy and rewarding life. Thank you for highlighting the PWC/Deloittes apprenticeships - we'll be looking into that, along with a number of others.

As for the school potentially not focusing on him, I sincerely hope that isn't the case after all the claims they make about treating each student as an individual, offering equal support to pupils no matter what their strengths and so on. They've known him for five years, are aware of significant difficulties he's had in his childhood (details of which I really don't want to share here) and they shouldn't be surprised by the route he's wanting to go.

I didn't mean that he would change his mind to copy what his friends were doing but just that those conversations may spark a genuine interest from him.

My son has done work experience at PWC and after they asked whether he would consider going to them post A level. He said he wanted to go to uni and they did say they thought that may be the case but have said they will keep his details when applying for internships.

If your son gets on work experience (look at their websites for when they take applications because it is possibly from September. In fact he did October half term y12 for Deloitte so I suspect they may be open now. They talk to then not only about the graduate trainee options but the various apprenticeships. I think EY may do a post 16 one.

HappySonHappyMum · 09/08/2021 17:43

I can share my experience of apprenticeships after A level - my DS did an Extended BTEC and an A level. He didn't want to go to Uni - just wanted to get working so an apprenticeship seemed like a perfect fit for him. He applied for loads of apprenticeships at all levels, he was happy to start at the bottom and work up. Most of them got cancelled last year because of the pandemic but there were two that carried on through and the process was the most intense thing I've ever witnessed. Both apprenticeships had online assessments, formal interviews, open days, DBS checks, health and eye tests and each time people were getting whittled away. There were at least five rounds for each apprenticeship - it was like X factor! BUT he got offered a level 3 apprenticeship with a major UK company with a crappy wage (or so we thought) which he accepted. Turns out though that the company recruit and then choose the best people and then choose their pathway so he's actually on a degree apprenticeship with a wage that's 10K more than initially advertised. He's been there a year now - and they told the 36 apprentices they'd picked they they had been chosen from nearly 8000 applications - which is insane. Apprenticeships are a minefield though and you really need so do the work to find one. They start advertising about October so my advice is to make a list of companies you'd like to work for and send emails to find out when they open their applications as it's different for every company. Sixth forms focus on Uni applications as it's beneficial for their data so it really is down to you to find what you need to do. Choosing an apprenticeship pathway is the harder option than Uni tbh, nothing is signposted, no-one is going to help you, there's no fall back if you don't get offered a job as this is the hard reality of the world of work. Sorry for the ramble but I hope it helps. My DS fell on his feet - and was bloody lucky - I hope it works out for your DS.

Original poster

Whatnextcrazyworld · 09/08/2021 16:25

Season You could be right that he'll change his mind but I very much doubt it as he's not enjoyed studying and says he wants to get out, be independent and earn his own living etc. And I absolutely don't want him changing his mind because "all his friends" are opting for the uni route.

It does now looks as if he'll stay on for sixth form but we'll keep a close eye on sensible alternatives for two years' time that will enable him to live a happy and rewarding life. Thank you for highlighting the PWC/Deloittes apprenticeships - we'll be looking into that, along with a number of others.

As for the school potentially not focusing on him, I sincerely hope that isn't the case after all the claims they make about treating each student as an individual, offering equal support to pupils no matter what their strengths and so on. They've known him for five years, are aware of significant difficulties he's had in his childhood (details of which I really don't want to share here) and they shouldn't be surprised by the route he's wanting to go.

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SeasonFinale · 09/08/2021 14:48

Yes I agree that I wouldn't have the conversation re uni with the school as they may not foucs on how he is doing! There isn't really any need to have that conversation until they ask for his UCAS form to be submitted and at that stage he can say he is considering what to do as after he gets grades he may indeed change his mind and want to apply.

Also sixth form is generally different (more freedom) than up to y11 so many find they re-engage with learning. Again uni is different to 6th form. Once his peers start discussing what they want to do going forward he too may find he has changed his mind.

I think the A levels are the way forward to leave as many options open as possible.

He may want to look at the PwC/Deloittes degree apprenticeships (not just for accountants!!)

Original poster

Whatnextcrazyworld · 09/08/2021 14:13

Bruffin That's fantastic! And I know chemistry is not an easy subject so your DS is clearly very capable.

And your DD has also done brilliantly. Thank you for your encouragement.

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Whatnextcrazyworld · 09/08/2021 07:55

Effy That must be so disheartening for your DS. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and it helps put things in perspective for me. One of my concerns is that there may well be greater competition for apprenticeships after A levels than now after DS's GCSEs, especially as more people are questioning the uni route.

I wish your DS all the best whatever results turn up tomorrow. [And I know it's not any easier for you waiting to hear and wondering "what if". Stay strong !]

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Effybriest · 08/08/2021 18:50

Slightly similar situation minus ds 1 not having stellar grades at gcse and A'level predictions are ok but not amazing (BC and D). He does however have however dyslexia which is a bit of a mitigating circumstance.
Our experience re apprenticeships so far isn't amazing. Ds1 was adamant he did not want to go to uni. Said the prospect of being stuck in a classroom for another 3-4 years was awful. Against my better judgement I went along with him. He has applied for quite a few level 3 and 4 apprenticeships. Excellent CV and covering letter, no issues with dodgy spelling etc, sounds articulate and enthusiastic. So far he's heard nothing. The degree apprenticeships are eye wateringly competitive, sadly very few A'level equivalent ones available in our area so he's actually now applying for post gcse ones when he has 10 decent gcses and 2 hopefully not too bad A levels. The big well known companies have the pick of the bunch. Some of the companies offering the apprenticeships on paper at least, don't have good reviews, one in particular won't match you with a particular post if you live more than 45 mins away from it. I feel pretty disillusioned with the whole thing. I don't think the covid issue has helped and suspect that there is now more competition for places from people who traditionally wouldn't dream of applying for an apprenticeship, those who maybe are on furlough who would like a complete career change. Personally unless you have top drawer grades and live in the south east where I suspect opportunities are more plentiful, I'd stay clear.

Original poster

Whatnextcrazyworld · 08/08/2021 17:11

MissCruella That is so helpful - thank you. My DS isn't interested in engineering but I think finance would be a distinct possibility if he loses interest in hospitality (that my DH is trying to steer him away from, although I think it would suit him). Well done to your DH!

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bruffin · 08/08/2021 17:09

@Whatnextcrazyworld

MissCruella Do you have experience of doing one? I sense that Engineering apprenticeships are well regarded but do you know which other industries run highly valued ones? [I realise it partly depends on the employer, of course.]

DS is about to start a p/t apprenticeship agree with a pharmaceutical company which is chemistry based. He has worked there 3 years and doesnt have a chemistry A level, but the company sets the requirements not the university.

sadly - and wrongly - DS has believed the perception [fed by the school, not me] that BTECs "don't count" as much as A levels. Equally disappointingly, I don't think DH would accept that route either.

Agree with you My DD has just finished her degree at a Russell Group with a Btec rather than A levels. Her 3 distinction stars were worth 168 ucas points same as 3 A*