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Further education

You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum.

A level choices - Philosophy, Biology & photography???

39 replies

loveisenough · 01/12/2019 18:25

DD is in the process of applying to college but unsure what she wants to do afterwards. She is interested in philosophy, biology and photography but wondering if they are good choices together. Any thoughts please?

Other possible subjects could be psychology, history, classical civilisation. She will also take sports enrichment.

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BubblesBuddy · 12/12/2019 01:59

There is clear evidence from recognised bodies like the Sutton Trust and the best universities like Cambridge that make it absolutely clear that doing what you like instead of doing what is academically needed, is not a good plan. Doing what you like can work for many DC if the combination is strong and the courses are not competitive. If they are, some universities are very clear about what they want. Getting offers from 5 universities may not be what happens when DC have a totally random choice. DC should study what they need, first and foremost.

If someone has studied music - this isn’t the same as photography. Although music isn’t facilitating it’s offered at Oxbridge and is considered decent academic prep for degrees in other subjects.

ifonly4 · 11/12/2019 14:10

She should do what she enjoys. DD also did one faciliating and one creative alongside philosophy. Original she'd intended to study music after sixth form, but she changed her mind. Her choices didn't stop her from getting five uni offers, so don't worry about the future too much.

BubblesBuddy · 10/12/2019 07:50

The idea that all universities are highly selective is misleading. They are not. For many, including less stellar RG, it’s bums on seats. Some elite universities might not be so keen on photography (obviously Oxbridge, Imperial, LSE etc) but others really won’t care too much as long as the other two fit in with the course.

Although technically facilitating as a descriptive term is dropped, many courses will be clear about which A levels they require and which are helpful. Very competitive courses will want to see all 3 A levels as academic, especially science courses. Classical Civilisation falls into the helpful but not essential. Many other subjects are similar. Eg Politics, History of Art, Sociology etc. In fact Cambridge have a Subject Matters leaflet that lists the “facilitating” subjects under “keeping options open” but says a mix of many subjects doesn’t keep options open. They are simply the wrong subjects for an academic university such as Cambridge.,

However, I don’t think the OP was talking about Cambridge. It is though very dangerous to say the best universities are not looking at subjects taken and subject combinations. They really do! They just might not label them as facilitating!

WhatHaveIFound · 09/12/2019 13:50

Photography?
V Bad choice IMO. Good uni will reject that immediately.

Not true. DD is doing photography as one of 3 A levels and had offers from all 5 of her university choices within a week of submitting her UCAS application. However at times she's found the workload heavy going and isn't applying to do an Arts degree.

safariboot · 09/12/2019 13:41

Oh right, I stand corrected then.

Savingforarainyday · 09/12/2019 07:24

OP
Your dd should take what interests her.
Seriously.

Trewser · 09/12/2019 07:15

In terms of university entrance requirements there are a small range of "facilitating subjects". These are usually widely taught at colleges, expected if you take the same subject at degree level, and well-regarded for applications for other degree subjects

The Russell group no longer encourage facilitating subjects I believe facilitating subjects dropped

safariboot · 09/12/2019 01:47

If she wants to keep her options open, is four A-Levels possible?

In terms of university entrance requirements there are a small range of "facilitating subjects". These are usually widely taught at colleges, expected if you take the same subject at degree level, and well-regarded for applications for other degree subjects.

Maths (and Further Maths)
Physics
Chemistry
Biology
English Lit
History
Geography
Foreign languages

For your DD, pairing biology with another science is virtually essential if she wants a science degree to be an option. Chemistry or maths work well if she's interested in them. Psychology's not unreasonable but might limit her somewhat, and from memory of what my fellow students had in my own A-level days a combo of philosophy, psychology, and biology is going to be a lot of memorisation kind of learning.

The thing with niche subjects like classical civ is that if you plan on doing the same thing at university the uni usually doesn't even require the A-level (because it's niche so many candidates don't have it), and there's a loss of broader applicability.

Pipandmum · 09/12/2019 01:22

Have you considered IB? She can take more subjects. Several kids I know are doing that or the IBCP. Most unis like IB and some even have a preference.

BubblesBuddy · 09/12/2019 00:56

Trewser. Art is much broader and is more suitable for architecture for example. Both require a lot of work. I know because DD did both. However it won’t make much difference on the courses the op is quoting.

catndogslife · 07/12/2019 18:09

My understanding is that far fewer pupils are taking Creative Arts subjects at A level now. The attitudes on here may be part of the problem. On these threads subjects such as Photography are either considered too soft or too much work. If your dd genuinely enjoys creative subjects then continuing with one at A level is likely to be a good option for her.
Usually at this stage usually 3 subjects are chosen with a 4th as a reserve. So there is room to change at a later date.
Biology and Psychology are usually considered to complement each other well.

titchy · 03/12/2019 18:20

If physiotherapy interest her, and you mentioned psychology, what about looking at Art Therapy as a possible career?

titchy · 03/12/2019 18:19

Art gives you experience of a wide range of mediums, photography doesn't which is what a pp meant I suspect.

The Art Foundation though is designed to give that broad experience.

Trewser · 03/12/2019 18:16

Photography on its own limits her. Art doesn’t because it’s broader

Not true!

BubblesBuddy · 03/12/2019 18:14

Photography is great for a photography degree and would work well with Art. DD did these and then did a creative fashion degree. Textiles was part of her A level. Photography on its own limits her. Art doesn’t because it’s broader. She should also look at Art Foundation courses and see if these are of interest. Just doing Photography and having an eye on a creative degree might not be good enough. Do check.

I would assume a Physio degree requires Biology but does any other subject compliment this? What do the universities offering this subject suggest? Doing Sport for pleasure and Biology sounds good but what about Psychology?

With the expansion of the universities it is a buyer’s market. What universities want for medics is completely irrelevant here as she’s not taking the right A levels and I would think that career isn’t on her radar.

LizziesTwin is saying things have changed but the subjects she quotes for an architect are perfect. They include Maths, Physics and Art. Mixes of chemistry, biology and maths are ideal for medicine so not sure these are great examples of changes in admission requirements for that career. If a budding medic had taken Biology, Classical Civilisation and Photography I would have been amazed!

OP: try and think about jobs and interests. Is she most interested in sport? If so, what jobs are there in this field and how do you qualify for them? If she’s interested in Classical Civilisation do History with it. If she likes Art, do Art and not Photography or both. Look at degrees and the best combinations of subjects. Often it’s only 2 that are required or desirable and the third is very optional unless you want Oxbridge.

BlaueLagune · 03/12/2019 17:48

Sounds like a good selection to me. PRE is a very well regarded A level, biology obviously is too, and photography is great if she wants something creative alongside. Not everyone wants to be a scientist or lawyer, MNers give well meaning advice but seem to forget that at times. I think a humanity, science and creative subject is a good combination for keeping a lot of options open.

loveisenough · 03/12/2019 09:14

As she is not sure what she might do at Uni then she wants to keep her options open and take a broader range of subjects. She is very sporty (sport would be taken as extra curricular) and is quite interested in physiotherapy but also very creative and doesn't want to take out the option of an arts degree. She's very good at History but doesn't want to take it at A Level.

She currently takes textiles at GCSE but the college only offer Art & Design or photography at A Level. She talked to the college tutor and was assured she could slant her work in Art & Design towards textiles. She wasn't sure about that so photography became another option.

My DS took Maths, Chemistry & Biology A Levels and decided on these very easily. I'm coming form the other angle as I took two art
A Levels plus English then an arts degree.

I think it's such a difficult choice at age 15 if you are not sure of the direction you might want to follow.

OP posts:
loveisenough · 03/12/2019 09:01

Thanks so much for the replies, DD and I have been reading with interest. She's still undecided but some good advice here so the deliberating continues!

OP posts:
Velveteenfruitbowl · 03/12/2019 09:00

Classical civilisation and philosophy would go very well together.

Trewser · 03/12/2019 08:56

Classical civilisation and Philosophy or RS are well regarded subjects. And as lots of us have said, Photography is fine taken as a third subject.

Shimy · 03/12/2019 08:48

What does she want to study? She must have a vague idea because she’s clearly not going for medicine, biochemistry or engineering, so she has somewhat narrowed it a bit. It’s always a good idea to choose subjects based on uni entry requirements because some of the universities can be quite particular about certain subjects and you don’t want to find out at the last minute, that ’s a subject she could’ve done but didn’t do because she wasn’t fully informed when choosing.

The issue is not the ‘photography’, the question is what are the other two subjects? are they two solid/traditional subjects? If they are, then the third being photography doesn’t matter at all RG or not.
I would advise that OP’s DD chooses two traditional subjects and ONLY ONE out of:

Photography
Philosophy
Classical civilisation
Sports enrichment (not quite sure what this is, is an ex curricular?)

If she does that, she’ll be fine.

LizziesTwin · 03/12/2019 08:40

Philosophy & biology are mainstream subjects - masses of content in biology (have had 3 children do biology A levels in the last 3 years).

I can give numerous examples of universities being more open minded nowadays than they were in the past. Eg Maths, physics, Spanish art - offers everywhere for architecture (including Cambridge & UCL), chemistry Spanish biology, 4 offers for medicine & offered 5th, chemistry biology Latin maths, offered 4/4 medicine plus other choice.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

Trewser · 03/12/2019 08:12

Birmingham told dd2 that Rs, English and photography would have been fine for Philosophy!

JumpiestBat · 03/12/2019 07:45

I'm probably old fashioned but I'd stick to core subjects. I wanted to do Psychology Sociology and English but my headteacher persuaded me to do English History and Economics. I got into a far better university (to do Philosophy as a degree) than I had expected would have me as a result.

It looks like she's got a bit of a muddle of topics, not potentially focused enough to single her out for a science or arts degree.

Looking at it objectively she seems to have interest in social science and humanities so perhaps Biology History and English or Psychology would give her more wiggle room given the breadth of topics you mention that interest her.

Broken11Girl · 03/12/2019 07:43

Adding to the voices that this will be fine for a 'good' uni. Nothing wrong with an unusual combination, it might actually make her a more interesting candidate. I think the combination of a science, humanities subject (assume the history etc would be instead of philosophy) and an arts subject demonstrates a range of skills. Furthermore if she genuinely enjoys the subjects she'll get better grades.