BTECs Your views

@novemberbliss My son has just completed his first year doing BTEC Engineering and has emerged with a D*. He's enjoyed the course and is looking forward to getting started again. He's not aiming for Uni but if he changes his mind his BTEC grades will get him in. It's not an easy option, he will have to work consistently hard throughout but don't worry, he's not closing doors and these qualifications will enable him to follow the traditional route again if he chooses it.

@onaroll
Really encouraging to read your post. My youngest son is just about to start his extended Btec in Engineering - a very different journey to previous experience (he is the youngest of 3 boys) and if I'm being honest, very different to my expectations. All my boys attended the local Grammar, and have so far gone down the fairly traditional route. Youngest, however, has not been terribly motivated by school (aka lazy!) and consequently had a set of very mediocre GCSE results this summer. He is very honest about this, and also is honest about what he would be like if he did A Levels - because he does not want to go to university, he doesn't see them as a means to the next step, and would continue to do no work for the next 2 years - a waste of his time and the school's time. So, this is the avenue he has gone down - I've taken some persuading, but to see him finally motivated and excited about starting the course has made me realize this is the best path for him. I've looked at the course content, and it certainly seems thorough. So, he's left his local Grammar school to go to college where he'll have to travel by train - but he's sorted it all, visited the college, and met some of his lecturers, and I'm learning this is his journey, not mine. I'm still a little worried that he's 'closing doors' going down this route, but have to appreciate A levels and the uni route are not for everyone.

I know for my Ds on his apprenticeship.
It is a 5 yr apprenticeship.
His degree will take the first 4 yrs, the final year ( 5th ) will be to study and attain becoming chartered.

Before he got his apprenticeship the Uni that was his first choice was Loughborough.
Of the degrees he wanted to do his Extended BTEC was adequate without maths A’level. They did require for the BTEC to be in a relevant subject. As his was STEM - it would have been adequate.

Most engineering apprenticeships are not offering MEng degrees only BEng degrees. There is a difference! Ultimately getting Chartered will take longer. Or the firm won’t require that of its employees at all. No MEng of high quality will want a student without Maths A level. Prospective students keep more doors open with A levels or a mix of BTec and A level maths. MEng offers better career prospects in the long run which is why it often requires an A level in maths.

Glad your DS had a good experience of the BTEC in engineering, @onaroll

Looks like it suited him as he wanted a more practical course and will have absolutely been a great preparation for his higher level apprenticeship. These are a great option for those who already know what career they want, with a degree as part of it.

Word of warning to those thinking of using BTEC as entry to more mainstream academic university courses. Some of those higher up in the league tables are not keen. At the Warwick University open day the Theatre Studies were a bit sniffy about DD's Extended level 3 BTEC in performing arts and were not sure if they would accept it, even with the A level English Literature alongside. That said, she got a place at Bristol Uni for English Literature (though turned it down) so the attitude can differ from place to place.

From above Distinction Distinction Distinction *
It did not seem to like the combination of capitals & stars.

Blessthekids
My son has an extended BTEC ( in engineering.)
He left his hugely over subscribed school / 6th form to study his BTEC at a new UTC.
He also left his friendship group - the only student at his college from his previous school.
Originally , he took A'level maths alongside his BTEC.
As his parents, we did question if a BTEC -although extended would serve his future well compared to A'levels.
After his 1st term (to our worry) he decided to pull out from the maths A'level. He felt both together was too challenging and he wanted top grades by concentrating on his BTEC. Not mediocre grades for both qualifications.
He worked consistently hard for his time at college.
He was rewarded as his final grade was DDD ( with D being distinction ). This was the highest possible. It is equivalent to 3 x A A'levels.
He himself would say that a BTEC serves you best if you get the high final grading.
UCAS points wise , his grades gave him the same amount as the A'level (A*) equivalents.
More than enough for entry to the Uni courses he had interest in.
He has instead gone on to do a higher level ( degree) apprenticeship. His UCAS points were used to qualify him onto his degree course with his Uni. Two Apprentices who were offered alongside him a place in his company following the interview process, sadly did not get their predicted grades (& UCAS points) to get on the Uni course. They could not start the apprenticeship as a result.
Two years in , he's doing really well & is very happy.

So, from a parents view. We started off as supportive of his BTEC , but dubious at the same time.
Now, we think it was the best thing he did & feel it gave him the 'power of choice' that A'levels perhaps ( in his case) would have not.

Sorry to be late back to this. In 2017 The Sutton Trust published research showing how privately educated DC were dominating theatre and film careers. They have also campaigned to keep drama on the curriculum in comprehensive schools. This is partly to aid confidence and speaking skills but also to allow budding actors to develop.

The cost of training and living expenses post 18 is a problem for poorer families. The profession of acting is skewed towards the better off. So what qualifications DC get at school can be irrelevant if they are unable to get jobs later on.

Re performing arts, the DaDa helps those on very low incomes, but for a family on an average income it leaves a huge gap that has to be self funded, plus the full cost of accommodation which further disadvantages those who do not live in London as this is where most of the top training is based.

Bubbles, what were the Sutton Trust commenting on, I'm not entirely clear?

If it was on access to performance careers, I would say that lack of money to pay for top level vocational training is the biggest bar for DC from well off families.

Most foundation and diploma courses attract no funding except the DADA which is very hard to get so most have to find thousands to self fund. Some of the top degree level courses are run by private colleges and you can only get student loan of £6k pa for fees for a course costing £14k pa. You have to find the shortfall yourself or chase scarce discretionary bursaries. This clearly bars a lot of talented DC from getting the training which opens the doors.

The Sutton Trust wrote about how DC can be disadvantaged and privately educated DC do better. I wasn’t poorly informed. I guess the Sutton Trust is wrong then!

With regards to the BTEC level 3 extended diploma in performing arts, DD applied for standard English Literature degrees through UCAS alongside performing arts vocational degrees.

She got triple distinction star for the BTEC and an A for A level English Literature. She got an unconditional offer for English Literature from Bristol University.

So doing an A level alongside the BTEC does keep the option of doing an academic degree at a top university open. It is hard work, though.

My DS did BTEC in Science, he didn't do so well in his GCSE's as we thought because he is a lazy tike! So he had to do the BTEC, but he did really well in that and got offered an unconditional place at Uni doing Genetics and Molecular Biology. He has just finished his second year.

I work in graduate recruitment in a large multinational IT Consultancy and we accept students with BTEC on to our level 4 apprenticeship schemes.
With grads we aren't fused what they got before their degree.

I used to teach BTEC Performing Arts in a school 6th form. 5/7 in my final class in that school are now training, or about to start training at decent drama schools (not bad for a fairly shit comp in rural Gloucestershire) I now teach the same course in collaboration with a professional theatre. The current Year 13s are my first group and the standard of their performance work is far superior simply because of the amount they do. Of the 10 Year 13s, 8 have offers for further vocational training at reputable places. The other 2 are doing in different directions (one into teaching, the other has an offer to study law)

It is all about the audition, but BTEC Performing Arts gives students greater opportunities to perform (rather than just write essays about how they might perform) and the curriculum and set up (certainly where I am) gives greater flexibility to prepare them - for example, we had 3 separate audition prep days with different directors, leading to a mock audition with someone who is on the panel for Birmingham Conservatoire. I couldn't have organised that at school as my own timetable wouldn't have allowed it even if the students' could.

Of course, one reason that students from private schools sometimes have greater success at drama school is the fact that it costs £££ to apply - not sure how many people are aware of that. Applying for 5 drama schools with £50 per school audition fee, and then travel (and sometimes overnight stays if they have to be there at 9am) adds up. "Normal kids" often can't afford it.

My son has spent two years at a sports college, he didn't do well in his GCSE's but has completed a BTEC and an extended one. He is starting Uni in September and will be doing an IT related degree. I was so worried that doing anything sports related would hinder his options in the future but that has not been the case. I'm so proud

Dd is a dancer so its a bit different but the btec performing arts drama strand at her school regularly gets kids into places like RADA. 90% of the 2018 leavers got a place somewhere.

It is possible to do it and do A levels, but it takes a school that is understanding of the level of extra curricular commitment involved (the level of homework expected at many schools would make this difficult) and often parental means to pay for such activities and the availability in the areas the young person is living in.

Dd is fortunate that she has a government scholarship called a DaDa to undertake profesional training alongside doing 2 A levels. As a dancer it would not have been possible to stay home for A levels as most of the local dance schools don't offer the number of technique classes required at the appropriate level.

Bubbles - sadly a lot what you said in your last post isn't true.

The old stereotype of performers all coming from public schools and Cambridge Footlights etc is becoming a thing of the past as the new generation come through. It's all about proper professional training now and the graduating classes of the top performance arts training colleges ( Mountview, Central, Arts Ed, RADA et al) are snapped up by the top agents. A good agent is the key to getting professional work.

From DD's sixth form group who studied the extended BTEC level 3 diploma in performing arts, about 75% got places straight away in the colleges in that group, most of the rest reapplied this year and many have places starting this September.

To contrast, her old top private school got one pupil into RADA about 5 years ago despite their brand new purpose built state of the art theatre and reputation for drama.

There is no substitute for full time rigorous professional training delivered by respected industry professionals. It really does make all the difference. In such a fiercely competitive area you need more than talent and some extra curricular activities.

My son is doing an Engineering BTEC with Geography A level alongside. It's not an easy option, it's proper tough! Get a bit fed up with the media suggesting BTECs are for people who couldn't cope with A levels - it's just not the case. I feel that each student needs to choose their own path and work out what is best for them. All I know is that my son is spending two years doing courses that he enjoys - life for many of us is not about the final destination but the journey. Going to Uni is not what it once was (I've been there, done that), so many young people do this now that a degree does not have the same impact with employers as it once did and many feel experience is far more important these days.

And many of our top actors come from top private schools who wouldn’t know what a BTec was! It is all about the audition and some schools prep their candidates extremely well - A level students or not. It all depends what talented teachers you have and it’s not all about the course. Great schools offer great performing opportunities with theatres and high quality productions for pupils so the course they follow really doesn’t matter.

Unfortunately for us none if our local schools or colleges allow the extended diploma plus an A Level, I’m guessing due to timetabling.

My dh teaches at a leading vocational performing arts college. They don’t care about A levels or brews, it’s 100% audition.

Bubbles, I have no knowledge of engineering course requirements and wouldn't pretend to. I know it is an academic discipline and it would likely be difficult to get into the better universities without top grade A levels.

When I say vocational training I am referring to specialist performance arts training. Entry to these courses is purely on audition so you want to do the sixth form course that gives the best preparation for this process. The BTEC with its emphasis on practical performance training gives better preparation than A level courses. Not impossible to get in if you are studying A levels but makes it harder as you have to fit in the practical training another way. That's why the top state performing arts school in the country offers BTEC Level 3 plus optional extra A levels in their sixth form. And they get the results.

OnGoldenPond: Prospective students have to do an A level as well it if they want MEng at Sheffield and for quite a few other high level vocational courses. Sheffield clearly do not see Engineering BTec as A* x 3. This is why everyone must check on the university pages. I also know lots of girls from my DDs schools who have gone to RADA, Guildhall and other prestigious acting schools - all with A levels. Again, do we know the stats regarding admissions? Plenty of A level students have done loads of acting via other clubs and schemes and have had drama teachers coach them. They must all prepare for an audition.

I agree with EvilTwins, the level 3 BTEC extended diploma ( 3 A level equivalent) is by far the best preparation for those wanting to go on to vocational drama school type training and performance careers. A levels are fine for university drama degrees which are more academic study than performance. However, there is great variation in the quality of courses offered at different colleges as they are internally marked. Check carefully what ex students go on to.

Also possible to do an A level alongside but very high workload and should only be done by a highly academic student. DD did A level Eng Lit alongside her BTEC and A at GCSE language and literature was required to be allowed to do this. Even so it was hard work and only recommended for real grafters!

The information you have from Oxford re music isn’t really supported by the music dept web site regarding applicants and entry qualifications. There is a difference between applying and successfully applying.

I believe bruffin’s DD is doing nursing at Cardiff. This isn’t the same as doing Civil Engineering at Sheffield. Therefore check what each university wants for the course you want. For example Sheffield want A level maths AND the BTech at DDD. Nursing doesn’t ask for AAA at A level and a BTech is obviously ok. After training, I really don’t care what pre degree qualifications they have! I just want competent nurses!

You could also check whether Oxford actually take music students with just a BTech and grade 8 etc. What is the real profile of successful candidates. One of DDs friends is a music grad from Oxford and he’s now a barrister. Definitely not a BTech entry student. However the stats would be very interesting!