DS probably dropping out of uni. DH horrified.

Plenty of businesses are heading for closure in this country regardless of whether they are second generation immigrant businesses. Also xenophobia obviously cuts both ways but it is ok for other cultures not to be inclusive as long as their children are attending RG universities. Please don’t make assumptions about me you do not know me. Funny how the liberal elite forget human rights in the rest of the world when they are getting a living from them.

Household And we might hope that they leave the UK with some affection and good memories of their time here. We hope they make lasting friends and relationships - all this helps us survive as a country.

Exactly but it does not help when vans border agency vans turn up to International house in Regents Park and herd students from some of our most prestigious unis including Imperial, there for a cinema night into vans and deportation or worse to detention centres if they sat a particular language test, basically trying it on to target a soft target for immigration control. Those students were vindicated in court and the HOs action declared illegal but if I were a clever student with a choice of US and Australian etc unis Ibwould think twice and the number of overseas applicants have gone down, by 50% from India. That will please the xenophobes I suppose but definitely won't help this supposedly global Britain to earn a living..,..

Then you know very little about the current state of tertiary education and the reliance of tertiary institutions on foreign students for their income

Overseas students pay a fee much nearer the real cost of a UK undergraduate degree. They subsidise UK students.

But much more importantly - they bring a much needed, refreshing, and challenging global perspective to the UK. And we might hope that they leave the UK with some affection and good memories of their time here. We hope they make lasting friends and relationships - all this helps us survive as a country.

And I am very very proud to be part of the UK education system which is so desired across the world, and seen as one of the best countries in which to pursue higher studies. The UK has developed quality in HE far beyond our population would suggest - we have 5 of the top 10 universities in the world in the UK.

And the contribution of international students and staff is an important part of that.

Chester I made no assumptions about your education - and ou say that you get by in a few languages, so I assume you'd understand that state of learning a language where you can understand most of what people say to you, and you can read (slowly, with a dictionary) but don't have the confidence or speed to speak as well as you would like. My language teaching colleagues call this "Passive comprehension."

I will say that if the Chinese students are anything like the Vietnamese nail bars or Chinese restaurants I frequent then I am not surprised the OP’s son is having difficulty conversing with or being accepted into their group. Make of this whatever you want. I will also add I have yet to see one of these businesses employing and English person.

Well, what I make of this is that you are a common or garden xenophobe.

I will say that if the Chinese students are anything like the Vietnamese nail bars or Chinese restaurants I frequent then I am not surprised the OP’s son is having difficulty conversing with or being accepted into their group. Make of this whatever you want. I will also add I have yet to see one of these businesses employing and English person.

Then you know very little about the current state of tertiary education and the reliance of tertiary institutions on foreign students for their income (as well as many secondary private schools who also rely on foreign students' money).

The vast majority of foreign Chinese students in this country are from very wealthy families - no need to spend time also doing a minimum wage job whilst studying for their degree

I'm sure if you could knock up a decent chow mein or sweet and sour chicken, then a Chinese restaurant might employ you - regardless of whether you had Chinese language skills, amongst your many European languages. Plenty of family-owned take aways in this country are heading for closure as the second generation kids do not want to take over the family business.

What I make of that is that you don’t know much about China let alone Chinese students, or indeed Vietnam which is an entirely different country with a different history and to quite a large extent culture and society but let’s not let the diversity of a region that accounts for a fair proportion of the world’s population get in the way of a good anglocentric stereotype.

FWIW the average Chinese student will be from a wealthy family and may well have been to an International School, even a British International School like those run by Harrow School etc. Or they may have gone to a British boarding School, China is their biggest overseas market, Wycombe Abbey and Winchester are the most aspired to by the Chinese professional and economic elite. You are more likely to meet people like them at a trade negotiation or working in a multinational, which is exactly why Chinese parents fork out for a western education so their children will be able to operate between cultures.

HouseholdWords I am not degree educated as you can probably tell by your supercilious attitude. I can however understand and get by in a couple of European languages. I will say that if the Chinese students are anything like the Vietnamese nail bars or Chinese restaurants I frequent then I am not surprised the OP’s son is having difficulty conversing with or being accepted into their group. Make of this whatever you want. I will also add I have yet to see one of these businesses employing and English person.

hmc good point, it is vital I think to have 'dropping out' (not an ideal term!) as an ok choice to make rather than a dramatic catastrophe.

Also worth noting that it's not that uncommon to realise you've made a mistake - anecdotally I hear of more people changing university than in days long gone by (changing course used to be quite common, place much less so).

rondo, good to hear that there are lots of non party freshers activities - and lectures, even better!

Have only read your posts OP.

My dd has social anxiety (I see you think that your son may have this). She sees a counsellor and is up and down - I manage her mental health quite carefully (its become a way of life for me - I don't even realise I am doing it) She is younger - Y11. When it comes to university she can apply for wherever she wants, but if she was reporting this kind of scenario back to me I would be very worried.

I would tell her - if its unbearable and making you unhappy then it isn't worth it. There are other options - i.e. you can come home and either apply for OU next year or apply to
our local university next year and live at home.....however if you want to stick it out a little longer to see what happens you have my full support. Equally if you feel you can't bear it another moment then come straight home.

I find that empowering them helps. My dd in that situation might well decide to stick it out a little longer because she would be confident that she calls the shots and there are no consequences or censure if she does decide to bail.

Arf, Ron, at the 70s commune. These days, I can only judge by what I see in the various alumni publications and it does seem that pastoral support has a much higher profile than it did in my day. Even if it is rather hippy dippy in approach, they're right to highlight the fact that the vastness and fastness of London can be intimidating for some.

I agree too about the ideal range of activities for freshers' week. My relative is at university in a town which has a reputation for nightlife and freshers' week seems to play into that by (for example) hiring nightclubs for boozy parties.

Plus Mums that overreact when you do admit you are sad.......

ok Yes, all those things to my certain knowledge at all the unis I have experience of .... There is a fantastic range on offer. The UCL Freshers fair is the biggest in the country with 300 stalls. If you cannot find activities / clubs that interest you from that....(plus they actually do start lectures in Freshers week)

However maybe that is part of the problem, too much available, too much excitement and no space to just be a bit sad at all the change....

it"'s a week or even two of nothing but social events, some of them very expensive, and with a heavy focus on drinking."

which is particularly surprising as apparently a higher proportion of 18-24s than previously are now non-drinkers!

I'm surprised that less alcoholic alternatives, and less cool things generally, haven't been developed for freshers week to tap into that - I know some places have ceilidhs, but you'd think there'd be scope for other slightly off beat fresher things - walks to explore the town, surrounding countryside, 'try a new sport' afternoons, many possibilities! Perhaps they have. (Or cut back freshers' weeks altogether - two weeks sounds horrendous!)

Still, it is good to hear that pastoral care has improved!

Maud At some of the London unis, not Imperial , the pastoral support is the stuff of a 70s commune complete with yoga and dream catchers and weed

"Alongside your academic life with your classes, assignments and related study, you will be juggling day to day life, including money and budgets, friends and relationships, perhaps part-time work or other commitments. Some of you will be adjusting to a city which is vast, fast and can appear impersonal. Others will have specific requirements that need specialist advice, for instance international students and disabled students.

Being a student can be stressful as well as challenging and rewarding. In order to study effectively, it is helpful if the rest of your life is running smoothly, that you feel involved in the course and student life and that you feel sufficiently confident to meet the demands the course makes.

We hope that if you find your life is not running as smoothly as you would like, whether or not this is directly affecting your studies, you will contact Student Advice and Wellbeing to see if we can help."

If only I had access to sessions on procrastination when I was 18 then my life might have been different, and I probably wouldn't be here for a start!

Imperial is a little more practical but clearly there is support....

I'm sure you're right about freshers' week. As far as I can remember, it was a societies' fair and a few other (fairly tame) things that you could go to between or after lectures. Now (at least, it has been for a relative at university outside London) it's a week or even two of nothing but social events, some of them very expensive, and with a heavy focus on drinking.

I was thinking more about the general pastoral support - study skills, life skills, personal and academic tutors - which I gather is better these days, even if there are still gaps.

'I imagine that induction and support for new students is better these days, it certainly used to be rather "sink or swim".'

It may be better, but I think in some ways it is harder as the 'freshers' week' legend has taken hold that you will have the time of your life, so you can start off feeling like a complete flop, without even lectures or work to distract you. Not a great start. Whereas I think in my day you had no expectations of freshers' week at all - there was a societies' fair, a couple of faculty 'get to meet you parties', and that was it. And it lasted about 3 days! These days freshers' week is great for the socially gregarious and adept students who will probably get on well wherever they go, perhaps less so for those who are shyer.

Abitoflight, yes volunteering and maybe there are some ULU clubs and societies your dd could join? And I think it is worth bearing in mind that some people just take longer to make friends than others. Sorry her course mates and others are not particularly welcoming - I think sometimes people find a group and are keen to hang on to that, so then aren't interested in any newcomers, or may even, sadly, actively resist them (no point in beating about the bush). Can she look out for any course members who are not part of 'the crowd' and try to befriend them? But in general yes join things that involve doing activities - and not necessarily just university groups either.

I agree that it's about a transition that very many people will probably have to make sooner or later - and I'm certainly not suggesting that everyone coming from a small, quiet town is incapable of it - but what I witnessed was that some found it overwhelming. I suspect that they had not been well-prepared by their schools for the non-academic side of university life and, as I said, pastoral care at that time was not particularly good. Nor did we at that time get any general guidance on how to be a student. We were just expected to know and to get on with it.

Clavinova This is a narrative that annoys me though, that somehow London universities, amongst them some of the best in the world, are only doable, socially, financially, whatever, for worldly private school pupils, are not for those from small town / poor / disadvantaged backgrounds. However I know from the experience of DDs flat mates, from disadvantaged single parent families from small (though admittedly diverse ) northern towns that it is not the case. They had a great experience, and it has opened up opportunities for them they would not have otherwise. It is not as though most will not have to make that transition to large diverse urban environment at some point anyway, increasingly I suspect overseas. That is exactly why all good universities are focused on giving students a global skill set.

OPs son has issues that I suspect would manifest themselves wherever he went, and you wonder if OPs attitudes are feeding that , but it does sound as if the course is a fit for him if not the social environment. I do think Imperial has an issue with the gender imbalance and culture, DD discounted it for that reason. I suspect they don't care either, they like their geeky cohort, they do not even do the areas of STEM where there is a greater representation of girls. That is a wider issue in Science anyway. However to paint the problem as one of London / universities with higher numbers of overseas students is misguided if not downright disingenuous, feeding of OPs clearly strong feelings..

I was an undergraduate at one of the London institutions mentioned here, some time ago (obviously).

Several students on my course dropped out in the first few weeks, as they realised they had picked the wrong course. Another issue for some was that they had grown up in small, rural communities and so had wanted the bright lights and excitement of London but, when they got here, found it rather overwhelming. I imagine that induction and support for new students is better these days, it certainly used to be rather "sink or swim". As far as I can tell, the London student demographic has always been slightly different and more diverse - more overseas students, more mature students and so on - and most people embraced that.

whatwouldrondo
The general tone of my post was meant to be positive but stats are stats. My own dc attend private schools not far from West London (prep plus selective senior school) - they have friends, classmates, neighbours, even aunts and uncles from all over the world - the environment at UCL etc. may not phase them at all.

at least a third were from selective grammars

So what? They’re state schools. Do you have to be surrounded by people from exactly the same kind of school in order to be ok?

There are loads of people who are in a minority at Oxbridge - ethnic minority students, overseas students who may never have been to the U.K. before, gay/transgender students, devoutly religious students etc.

Many students who’ve been stuck away at single sex boarding schools can be quite shy with the opposite sex and find socialising hard.

Clavinova As I have said before the crucial difference and challenge socially at Imperial is the gender mix and high proportion of people who are super clever and totally absorbed in their subject area —geeks— I have actually met a few alumnae who are, literally, rocket scientists and their network is very tight (Brian May included), amazing people but I am sure they would not mind me saying, different.

User Yes that was my experience especially with those Uk students who had gone straight from school to university. It used to infuriate me that they were not taking that opportunity to learn how to make an effective contribution and work in teams whilst they could do so in a low risk supportive environment compared to when you enter the world of work. It was as though they had been taught to keep their ideas to themselves for fear they would be stolen, and enable someone else to do well..

In my subject (a humanity Masters) my course would have been immeasurably the poorer for not having overseas students to bring different perspectives and experiences. They also in many cases had a much greater depth of academic knowledge and experience. A high number of overseas students was actually crucial to just how enriching it was and I have heard the same from many humanities students. I can safely say that I never when it came to my subject had the slightest problem interacting with overseas students either as a result of language or culture, enthusiasm for the subject united us.

I might add that most of our lecturers were from overseas too, a vital contribution to the world leading standard of the course.....

she does mention that 'nobody spoke' during classes/tutorials for the first year.

This has very little to do with international students. UK students are very reluctant to talk during classes/tutorials. It is a huge contrast relevant to teaching in the US, for example.