Btec or AS for dc with health/attendance issues

Why would you not believe it, it is nothing unusual, we teach on Saturdays and Sundays, too. Most staff are expected in on at least one weekend day.

certainly to us, the change from school to college didn't make one iota of difference. like I said, different ofsted framework, but even that was mostly the same.

I', not setting out to upset the mother, just pointing out BTEC is a totally unsuitable course for someone with attendance issues. I;m certainly not in a minority to say so, I know any member of any department i have ever had contact with that teaches BTEC would be jumping up and down screaming NOOOOOOO!!! at the suggestion this boy does BTEC.

Again, I suggest you contact your union about your own position, as you are leaving yourself wide open and unprotected.

No difference what so ever for staff or students.

It bloody well should be different. For one in a school the vast majority of students are children, in FE the majority are adults.

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. It is exceptionally concerning, particularly from the legal aspect. You are legally in the wrong, and are putting yourself, your career and your income in an etremely perilous position.

What on earth are you talking about. You are the one breaking the law. You actually seem quite proud of it.

You also seem to have taken a great pleasure in upsetting a mother who initially asked advice for her child. Why would you do that?

Can't you see that everyone else is saying one thing and you are saying another?

I don't believe you have a 7-7 teaching day as standard. I doubt very much you are teaching a class at 7pm, you certainly won't be teaching a class at 9pm when the local FE college is.

Why "that's right we teach classes after 3.30". Who do you imagine doesn't We were legally classed as a school, we became an academy, we are now an FE college, there is only one difference, ofsted uses different tick sheet. No difference what so ever for staff or students.

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. It is exceptionally concerning, particularly from the legal aspect. You are legally in the wrong, and are putting yourself, your career and your income in an etremely perilous position.

I would very strongly recommend you contact your union right away for clarification. You might even find you are completely nullifying any insurance your union holds for you. You are certainly compromising it.

sashh, there is no difference whether it is a school or a college, obviously, we teach way past 3.30 too, like I said, my day is basically 7-7, and you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about legally, which is very dangerous, for your students and staff, but most of all for you, if your employer ever takes any form f legal action against you, as I have seen happen all to often.

Charis
It is NOT a school, as I said several times it is an FE college. No we do not have less of a work load, a normal day is teaching 9-5, that's right we teach classes after 3.30pm.

We also understand our legal duties to students, you worryingly don't.

You are right I have not run BTEC Level 3 IT, I have run BTEC level 3 in other subjects and I have also run BTEC HND Computing.

No a teacher does not have to put themselves legally in the wrong, don't be an idiot.

sashh your school sounds the same as mine, except obvious the staff have less of a work load, for what ever reason. We are in 7-7 as standard, but there is absolutly no wriggle room in that to reschedule and reschedule and reschedule. Once is all you get, and even then, as I am sure you know, to do it in your own time, the teacher has to put themselves legally in the wrong.

Nothing you say addresses any of the issues realistically. i very much doubt you have any real experience of running this course.

My suggestion would be BTEC. A level 3 is the equivalent to A-Level. It won't stop you children getting into university, unless they want to do something that specifically requests a certain subject at A-level. BTEC will allow them work from home if necessary and is a little easier to catch up on

In terms of attendance, be honest with the college as to why, you don't have to give really personal details though. When I enrol Learners onto my courses (1,2 and 3) in august and I see the attendance records it's normally enough to set alarm bells ringing unless there is a valid reason.

What careers are your DC thinking off? Sometimes vocational is much better than A-level depending on what it is they want to go in to and vice versa.

If you want to message me I'm happy to answer any questions, I've been teaching in FE for 8 years now.

In the first unit your son will be required, amongst other things, to make a presentation to the class, and to assess the presentations of others. A bit difficult if he is not there.

Ever heard of skype? Every student has a mobile that records video now, presentations can be filmed and Q and A can be done via skype. In fact BTEC EV quite like video so they can see the actual presentation not just a witness statement.

In fact 10 years ago I was recording students for the 'communication' unit I teach.

and can I also point out that even for the occasional absence, there is absolutly no time or resources leeway in a school AT ALL for the type of "reasonable adjustments" that parents and students feel they have a right to demand

I think you will find that the OP is talking about college not school.

Also the adjustments ARE a right. They are enshrined in law.

Will I redo a practical assessment for a student who is lazy and can't be bothered to get out of bed - will I hell.

Will I spend a lunch break or an evening with a student who has been ill or who has long term health issues, damn right I will.

Will I get a first year to present to a second year class because they missed presenting to their own class FOR A GOOD REASON then yes I will.

And back to this being in college not school, students are in 9-5, sometimes 9-9pm, as are teachers (actually teachers are often in between 7.30 and 8) so scheduling evening catch up is not that difficult. Some colleges open on Saturdays too. I taught at one college that opened at 6am Mon - Sat. There were no classes scheduled at that time but it was an ideal time to do some catch up.

Similarly colleges often have classes dedicated to one particular subject area and set up 24/7. Most have small rooms, often in the library, for 1-1 sessions, and as they usually have a glass wall and the librarian can see in chaperoning isn't a problem.

The college I'm currently at has 600+ staff and about 10 000 students - no I didn't put in an extra 0.

Don't judge all educational establishments with your school, and don't label students with medical needs as 'demanding'.

As for the driving test analogy, well you can take a driving test in a car with hand controls, with an interpreter, with your instructor accompanying you, with a friend for moral support - ie 'reasonable adjustments'.

If you're ill on the day of your driving test you reschedule. You don't throw in the towel and not bother with any more lessons

and if you fail a BTEC through poor attendance you can resit the year,(once) - but you will still have to turn up for the resit year!

You are being totally ignorant, unrealistic and quite ridiculous. Unfortunately, school are totally drained of thousands of pounds and thousands of staff hours every year by students and families equally unrealistic.

If your attendance is likely to be poor and you will be learning at home, ACADEMIC COURSES - NOT VOCATIONAL

and can I also point out that even for the occasional absence, there is absolutly no time or resources leeway in a school AT ALL for the type of "reasonable adjustments" that parents and students feel they have a right to demand, that any teachers attempting to providing them are doing so not only voluntarily, but at a huge cost not only to their own family lives, but to their own legal position.

Just LOOK at the criteria I copied. BTEC is a course that teachers HAVE to witness the students completing. All I did was glance through the pass level criteria or two units, there will be 18 similar units in all, and I didn't even other to read the merit and distinction criteria.

Just look for yourself. If a student is not there to see a demonstration and assessment of p6 for example, what do you think is going to happen? It is going to be retimetabled .

How and when do you think that is going to happen?

Typically you will need to book a room, and requisition the equipment. Room bookings will be done through admin, and requisitioning through technicians. Typically each will take a week's notice ( keep in mind that admin and technicians will be dealing with hundreds of regular requests each week, and will have deadlines, etc, maybe even earlier deadlines for these extra resits) then it is likely to be after school, as the rooms and staff are obviously timetabled fully during the week. You will therefore need another member of staff present to chaperone, and will have to delay the cleaning. So admin, cleaning, technical and teaching staff all booked in a week in advance ( do keep in mind that this is voluntary for the teacher, and not only that, but they are putting themselves legally in the wrong to do it)

What if the student misses the resit too?

this is just for one criteria in one unit, like I said there will be 18 units, and teachers have to observe the students not only in the practical components, but also completing the written tasks as controlled assessments.

that is why resits are typically timetabled in all together in one week at the end of term, and why individual students can only realistically attempt a limited number, as they will be running simultaneously.

Just LOOK AT THE CRITERIA!

You can see what a disaster it is when poor attenders attempt a BTEC Course. it cannot be done.

If you're ill on the day of your driving test you reschedule. You don't throw in the towel and not bother with any more lessons.

titchy, there is reasonable adjustment, and there is out and out insanity. As I said, try explaining to a driving test examiner that you think it is unfair to fail your child simply for not showing up...........and saying "it isn't their fault-they are not well"

Charis are you aware you are obliged to make reasonable adjustments for your students if illness or disability requires it? No one is dumbing down BTECs. Just making OP aware that they can be more flexible in terms of when assessments happen which is not the case with A levels.

Sash is also a BTEC tutor and her responses have been significantly more helpful than yours which only serve to highlight the chip on your shoulder. I wonder which of you is more supportive.....

Just take a look for your self, I've only glanced at the first two units very breifly, and yet have come across 6 assessed class room tasks straight away, just to get through with the bare minimum pass, without even looking at the merit level tasks.

In the first unit your son will be required, amongst other things, to make a presentation to the class, and to assess the presentations of others. A bit difficult if he is not there. In unit 2 I found the following assessed class room tasks:

2set up a standalone computer
system, installing hardware
and software components
[SM3]

P6 configure a computer system
to meet user needs

P7 test a configured computer
system for functionality

P8 undertake routine
maintenance tasks on a
standalone computer system

What you don't seem to get is these are ASSESSMENTS. all students need to be present during the demonstration, and PRESENT DURING THE ASSESSMENT, just to get the minimum pass mark. This is not something you can do at home, you need to be in the class room, with the assessor, with the equipment.

Look at the spec for yourself,

You cannot do a BTEC if you are not present for the lessons, never mind doing the exams.
y
And what about controlled assessments? course work done under controlled conditions, in front of the teacher, who needs to be able to guarantee to the exam board that is was done individually, and without communication with anyone else.

You need to get real. I am sick to the back teeth of BTEC being used as a dustbin. it is a serious, valuable, rigorous and worth while qualification, requiring students to demonstrate high levels of attendance, punctuality, commitment, reliability, skill and ability. And by demonstrate, I mean do it in front of the teacher.

It is not something you can just cobble together on your own at home.

you need a book based subject ( preferable with no coursework, controlled assessment or practicals) If you want to teach your self alone at home.

I get parents whining to me every year that it is "not fair" to fail their child for ill health, they just don't seem to get that if their child is not in, then they are not doing the tasks required to pass.

So far my son has not had to do any assignments where he has had to be at college - they have all been done at home. Whether he will have any to be done at college we have yet to find out.

To be honest your DS has to do something as they can't leave education so I would just cross the bridge if you need to. There might be a need to attend but whose to say that your DS won't be going through a good period so it won't be an issue.

All the best.

it doesn't make the slightest difference WHY an activity is missed. Any more than it would matter WHY you missed your driving test. If you are not there to do it, you will not pass. Full stop. The college can say what they like to get bums on seats. It isn't up to them. They will be required to act as instructed by the exam board.

But what I'm saying is activities DO have to be repeated, because each student has to complete each activity in front of a witness, most likely the teacher.

Each activity that a student misses is listed and retimetabled. This includes early morning and late nights. We normally have the catch ups at the end of each term, although if there are two catch up nights, and a student has missed more than two activities, they cannot catch up and will need to drop a unit. Similarly, if a student misses a catch up, they are also disqualified from that unit.

Any student with poor attendance will be weeded out by this process during the first term, and the ones that continue know better than to miss any lessons! Generally, any that pass the first term will pass, although there is always one or two who'e attendance deteriorates, and they will not complete the full number of units.

I teach Science BTEC. There is absolutly no way the course can be completed with poor attendance. AS is a far batter bet, as you can study those at home. BTECs are vocational qualifications, the teacher has to see you completing practical and academic tasks in the classroom. There is no leeway, and no room in the timetable to keep repeating sessions because someone has missed them. This is the same in every BTEC subject.

Brilliant news!

Good luck for the exam results

Glad things are working out Running