violin lessons: group in school vs. private?

Strix,

I am a musician and music teacher, with several descades' experience both of teaching in different circumstances and overseeing primary school peripatetic services. And I don't think I've ever read a question on a forum that has such a straightforward answer. You HAVE to keep her having the private lessons. If the kid argues, give her some chocolate or something and tell her "too bad". She'll thank you for it when she actually makes progress on the instrument.

Obviously a lot more progress can be made by an able student working 1:1 than in a group with others less able. This is exacerbated by the fact that on the violin specifically, learning good intonation (ie playing in tune) is excruciatingly hard, and requires constant, detailed attention from the very beginning to have any chance. That's going to be severely compromised by being in a group with others playing out of tune.

But we haven't even touched here on the main advantage of the private lessons over the groups at school, which is your ability to be involved in the lessons, liase with the teacher and support her practice appropriately during the week. This is probably the MOST important factor determining success vs drop-out rate with young children taking up an instrument - more important than so-called "talent", I would dare to say. It's one of the strengths of the Suzuki method for example, and it's one of the main reasons so many peripatetic school services fail.

Please don't be put off by the fact that you're a "musical novice". If you take a constructive attitude, listen to the teacher and are willing to learn, you'll support her well. In fact being a novice is even more reason why the school group would be a bad idea, because you'll have no way to judge the odd comments here and there being written in her practice diary (if you're lucky enough to even get that).

I DO know what your DC means about wanting to do it at school with her friends - playing with others is one of the great joys of learning an instrument. But it's a separate issue, which should involved joining ensembles, county groups, youth orchestras etc - or even playing the odd duet with a friend. The actual lesson in which the child learns how to play the instrument is separate from this.

The kid is able, keen, apparently on an instrument appropriate for her, and at the right age to be really going for it. You might be lucky and stumble across one of the minority of peripatetic services that serve musically able children well, but even if you were she wouldn't do as well as in a private lesson. More likely, she'll have some fun, waste a lot of time, and eventually give up because she can only play Twinkle Twinkle Little star by the time she's 11.

It's a no brainer. Find the money, and drop swimming or ballet or horseriding or macrame or karate or French or motor mechanics or whatever, as necessary.

I know I'm going to be laughed at but here goes. What is the difference between a violin and a viola?

Actually you've just stumbled onto a well-known musicians' joke. And the answer is...

A viola burns longer.

Is that near Bushey? if it is you might want to go into Thwaites stringed instruments on Chalk Farm Hill Road (near Bushey arches) and they advertise teachers on their notice board. You might also want to ask them for their recommendations.

Can anyone recommend a good violin teacher near South oxhey?

you can pay extra for her to be taught on her own at school

Think you are doing the right thing OP. The great thing about the violin is there will be plenty of opportunity for socialising/groupwork in the future, so 1:1 lessons will become only a part of your DDs playing experience as she gets older.

If she is concerned about learning with others, then finding a violin group may be a possibility.

I had private violin lessons from age 6, and started to go to a beginners string group on a saturday morning shortly after. This enabled me to meet other children who played, but also to benefit from the private lessons. I strongly believe that private lessons are crucial if your DD wants to take it seriously. I certainly could never have advanced as I did if I had only had school lessons (and this is coming from someone who doesn't generally believe in 'going private' as a rule!).

Way to go Strix. Well done to your dd on progressing so fast.

can you afford the private lessons?

If so - keep on with those.

I would dearly love to pay for private lessons for DS1..........and the way my budget is looking (and if blardy EON would let me log-in to double check how much I still owe them on an old account) I may squeeze them in for him as I'm not happy with his group (of 2) lessons........

When she has a lesson with her friends and there is bound to be one of them that just doesn't get reading music and at least one that never practises and she will realise that learning with your friends actually sucks.

She is 6 years old - you have asked the opinion of her teacher and of other teachers here. Who do you think knows best?

At 6 she will assume that all her friends will be as good as her. I have a girl who has learnt more in 4 lessons than another girl has mastered in 4 years!

I can see her point of view - learning with your friends and not losing an evening does sound more fun. But it's tricky isn't it? If she's an unusually fast learner she's not really going to do well in a group situation.

Can you explain that to her without swelling her head too much? Otherwise I don't really think she'd lose out much to do the group stuff for a term and then she will understand the issue first hand (losing one term of lessons age 6 is neither here nor there by age 11 imo).

marialuisa is right that viola is rarer, but it's fairly easy to switch between the two and can be done at any time (just involves learning a new clef). My recommendation would be cello. It's between violin and viola in rarety, but it's easier to play (grade 4 cello is easier than grade 4 violin/viola I reckon).

viola is a bit bigger and deeper. Its highest string is the same pitch as the second highest string on a violin and its lowest string (c) is a fifth lower than the violin's lowest string.

If you are thinking scholarships then IME she will probably need to be beyond grade 4 standard on violin at 11+ as it is such a popular instrument. DD's school (not London) requires candidates on more commonly played instruments (violin, piano and flute) to be at a higher level than those on more unusual instruments. My top tip would be get her onto the viola ASAP if she has a natural flair for the violin. Grade 5 violin at Y6 is not unusual, grade 5 viola is.

DD has opportunity to play at school in September when she will be 7. She's had almost 2 years of private tuition and I am tempted to let her do it at school for the convenience and fortunately her school has said they would place her in a group according to her abbility so I think she'll be playing with year 4 or 5 children although she'll be in year 3.

I had a good talk with the school violin teacher who said she probably would be challenged in school for a year or 2 but then might need to do private lessons (ie unless there were another 2 or 3 children playing at her level then the school would not allow her 1:1).

I think it will all depend on teacher and the individual child. One child who started at school a year and 2 terms ago has just done grade 1 and got a distinction and will do grade 2 soon (in year 4). A child like this will easily reach grade 4 by the time he leaves primary and could have music considered for scholarship purposes.

It's all a gamble but these are assessments that you will have to make.

Yes, more than one teacher at a time is not recommended. Also, it will mean she outpaces the others in her group even faster than she might otherwise.

I think private lessons are likely to be best, but it won't do her any harm to do the group ones for a term either as long as her private teacher who it sounds as though she is getting on well with doesn't feel too messed around. But if the others in her group are complete beginners, she may get a bit fustrated by going back to the start and progressing slowly and conclude herself that the individual lessons are better.

She's only 6, a term of reinforcing the basics won't hurt at all and it's the summer term, so lovely to have an extra evening free to play outside too.

If you are thinking scholarship then you would be mad to think that 8 minutes or so of attention will do that. I teach in a school but the parents pay and the ones that want exams, scholarships etc pay the extra for 30 minutes one on one. The ones that "just want them to try it" have a 20 minute shared lesson (2 students) and it's nowhere near enough for any sort of progress - but I make the lessons good fun and about enjoying playing together.

I guess it depends on why she wants to play the violin and what she wants to get from playing.
If it's grades and scholarship she thinking about then perhaps she would be happier doing the 1:1