Music/Singing lessons for a 6 year old?

Belo - how lovely for all of you that your DD is musical!

I'm going to preface my comments with a disclaimer that I have never, ever gone in for organised classes/lessons/activities for the children, on the grounds that I am a firm believer in boredom. They spent the first five years of their lives doing stuff all outside the home (unless you count poking in puddles and such like). So I am not one for pushing them into activities - in fact, I regard them with horror.

All that said: my DS has had a lovely singing voice since he was old enough to sing. When he started school, his school music teacher said she thought he was exceptionally musical, and asked whether we'd thought of letting him have singing lessons. We had vaguely wondered this ourselves, if only because he was (and is) obsessed with cathedrals and had seen a poster advertising choral auditions, which he'd been interested in. She said she knew the top singing teacher in our city, and suggested that we take DS for a trial lesson. DS was coming up for six at the time, and the teacher said he didn't normally take pupils under eight, but he would give him a go. Following the first lesson, he said he would love to teach him despite his age. His age was apparently relevant from the point of view of lung capacity, which - so he said - isn't really well developed enough for solo singing until about eight. However, he said there was still a lot that he could do with a talented child - and he has done precisely that. Quite apart from having a lovely voice, DS (7 in May) is now a superb sight-reader (better than any 10-y-o in his teacher's experience), and is having a very good musical training which suits him. There is nothing he likes better than one-to-one adult attention . He has subsequently taken up piano lessons, which are going equally well.

It has of course occurred to us that this could be an advantage when it comes to schools - both in the short term (choir prep schools have fantastic scholarships) and in the longer term. At the moment we are paying crippling prep school fees, and we need some help to fund at least one of the DCs!

I'm not saying any of the above to boast about my DS (I could write an entire book on all his foul behaviour as well!) - but just by means of encouragement. Any kind of music is such a lovely thing - if they enjoy it! - for them to be able to do. Six is by no means too young for an instrument (I started playing the piano at four, and still love it now...).

Good luck!

A good sense of pitch is vital to play a string instrument. Ds definitely plays his cello better because he can sing along - albeit 2-3 octaves higher!

Charlotte Chuch in my opinion had fantastic potential and it was a lovely voice when I first heard her on the TV. However when she became famous she must have received some very bad advice and it was all done for money.

She was singing stuff that someone her age should not have been attempting. Way too much too soon.

My dh is much more of an expert than I am on these matters. He is hoping when he passes a particular qualification he is working towards to work with speech therapists as well as a singing teacher and also wants to run workshops for high intensity voice users like teachers etc.

islandofsodor you explained it beautifully. I think perhaps Charlotte Church's voice was trained too early. I know of someone who was asked to help her as her voice was damaged and it was all caused by having singing lessons too young.

You explain that so well. Thanks. I had no idea about nodules being formed

You don;t ruin voices on the whole but yo can damage them.

The sound is made by the air vibrating through the vocal chords. The chords have to close for the sound to begin then open to allow tha air to pass through.

If the vocal chords are constricted when the sound is being made then they can rub against each other causing polyp type things to form otherwise known as nodules. Using unsafe techniques or "pushing" to try and imitate a pop sound or belting can cause constriction. Belting is not bad in itself but is is a technique that must be learnt and is not suitable really for very yong children.

If the vocal chords are retracted (or in classical terms having an open throat) then damage is less liekly to occur.

How do you detect a "ruined" voice deste? What is the damage that it is done to it?

Island, my dd does the Carrie and David 'paap shaap' thing I think deliberately to wind me up!

Childrens voices (girls anyway) dont settle down till they are about 16, too much too soon and you will ruin them.

I see, thanks for the explanations

I think the problem with individual singing lessons isn't so much training the voice, but pushing too hard too soon. If the parent, child, and teacher were all going sensibly and carefully then it wouldn't do any harm, but there's a risk that they will be very ambitious and overdo it. It's like things like dance and gymnastics - there's nothing innately wrong about small children doing them, but overtraining because of pushy parents or teachers can harm developing bodies.

Plus, TBH, individual lessons in singing or instrument at 6 is usually a bit too intense and not much fun!

It is not bad to train children's voices. However at a young age most children have not the mental or physical capacity to cope with one to one.

Group training means you can do the same stuff technically but in a fun way using games, sily songs etc. A half hour individual lesson is far more taxing than an hour long group session.

Can I ask something a bit dense maybe? Why is it good to sing 5x mornings, 4 x evenings and 2 x church each week but not good to have an individual singing lesson?

I'm not querying it, I just don't really understand it. Is it good to sing as much as possible but not good to actually train the voice? The problem is at my dd's choir rehearsals they most definitely DO train the voices, I mean it is not just singing along any old how is it?

that's interesting, thanks. As I said I really don't know much about it but I was struck by the difference in the way the girls are trained and the boys are trained.

Well, girls voices do change around the same time as boys do, it's just not as obvious since they will only go from treble to adult soprano or alto. But if they're singing in a children's choir when they are developing their adult voice, they can sound quite "out of balance" with the trebles.

DS was in the cathedral choir here, which is rare in being a truly mixed treble line rather than having a "boys choir" and "girls choir" which a lot of cathedrals do. It was intensive - though from age 7 or 8, not 5. They rehearsed 5 days a week before school lessons, sang 4 evenings after school plus 2 services on Sundays. The boys and girls had the same training, and all left at the end of S2 (Year 9) whether or not their voices had changed. Sometimes girls at the top age had their adult soprano or alto voice, which is far more powerful than even the best trained treble. They could still sing with the choir though, since the change was a relatively gradual one, whereas once the boys started to change they'd be no use till it settled somewhere! We sometimes had them singing with the tenors or basses once they had settled enough.

It's an absolutely brilliant musical training, specially when they are also at a specialist music school, but yes it is intense.

Both girls and boys voices "change" (I prefer this term rather than break. Both need treating with care through this period and in the case of boys the larynx increases in size a lot more. However in both boys and girls you get a temporary loss of range, breathiness etc.

Both boys and girls can carry on singing through this transtition.

So no, to be honest it is only tradition that means boys often have more intensive training rather than the physical make-up of the larynx.

with individual lessons, doesn't it make a difference whether you're talking about girls or boys?

My dd (8) is in a choir (has been since she was 6) which I am very happy with and she loves it. I do think a good model helps and my dd enjoys singing in a small group. I think she would clam up in an individual lesson although a lot would depend on the personality of the teacher. Personally I have found choir singing is excellent training for the violin; her violin teacher often has her sing a new piece before she starts to play it and I do think it helps.

Actually we had a choir concert last night and I spoke to one of the mums who is considering private lessons for her dd who has an exceptionally lovely voice and a very good ear but is disturbed by the noise of other girls singing at the same time and in fact by any kind of noise, chattering, scraping of chairs etc. So much so in fact that she wants to end choir practice. Her mum is considering private lessons, just 15 minutes or so which is ok I think if you can find a teacher willing to do it. My dd's voice is not outstanding in any way. She sings for pleasure really.

Don't know much about singing/training young voices but the affiliated boys' choir is very intensive from the age of 5 with 3 rehearsals a week and individual singing lessons for all the boys from the onset. I was told this is because they don't have that much time to train a boy's voice before it breaks; whereas there is more time to allow a girl's voice to mature.

Also there is a danger that children will try to imitate what they hear on the TV/radio. I have had a heck of a job trying not to get my dd to imitate the singing on various Cbeebeies programme including that awful carrie & David thing. They can end up constricting, which is bad. Of course some people can constrict all their life and suffer no ill effects, but for others it can lead to things like nodules.

Goog group lessons can be fantastic, children need to hear good singing being modelled. Individual lessons are fine once the child has enough concentration and intellectual capacity to understand what is required.

Well, I'd say hearing your treble singing the first solo verse of "Once in Royal David's City" or "In The Bleak Midwinter" in a darkened cathedral has its plus points too . There's nothing fundamentally wrong in young children having singing lessons, though I'd say a choir setting is a better place for it than solo lessons at that age.

Glad you have ruled out singing lessons for your DD. My DD did not have a singing lesson till she went to drama school at 19. There is nothing nicer than hearing a child sing with a natural voice. We were advised not to let anyone get their hands on her voice till she was at least 16. We couldn't find a decent singing teacher so she never started until she left home and it was included in her course.

guitar might be nice, not too difficult once the fingers have toughened a little and it is an instrument you can accompany yourself singing on

That sounds like a good plan Belo.